The 9/11 Forum

Thought it prudent to restate the OP visual info. Sticky OP would be handy sometimes.

During the descent of WTC 1 a linear series of ejections can be seen traversing from the South East corner to the North East corner.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkS58AwDX0E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr5GJwfLCl4



http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5LZ78P53
http://the911forum.freeforums.org/wtc-1-diagonal-slice-t193.html#p4064 (Codec resources)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgnkO1SeuPU (From 02:12)

Traversal would appear to move UPwards from Lower NE to Upper SE.

OneWhiteEye wrote:I wanted to wait to see this characterized more, which has happened. Of all the anomalies, this takes the cake. It has even edged out an anomaly on the S Tower that, after all this time, no one else seems to have noticed.

South Tower anomoly ? Can you give us a hint (in a new thread) ?

It has even edged out an anomaly on the S Tower that, after all this time, no one else seems to have noticed.

Will you share this with us or just keep it to yourself?

This diagonal slice is the consequence of well controlled debris guidance far from WTC 7 into the empty WTC plaza. The most important issue is the prior fall of the antenna before the outer columns. That shows the core was demolished first and the collapse began by the explosions inside the core.

mehmeti --- Not at all, being but the response of the Vierendell truss exterior wall to the changing eccentric imposed load.

Major_Tom wrote:

It has even edged out an anomaly on the S Tower that, after all this time, no one else seems to have noticed.

Will you share this with us or just keep it to yourself?

I already have. Doesn't look like much until you really look at it. Might not be anything at all, but looks really interesting to me. See it?

David B. Benson wrote:mehmeti --- Not at all, being but the response of the Vierendell truss exterior wall to the changing eccentric imposed load.

If that was true, the antenna should fall into the impact side. This is the north and WTC7 direction in the case of north tower. But the antenna is falling into the opposite direction.

achimspok wrote:

This pronounced tilting of the lower portion of the structure provided a source of eccentricity giving rise to the diagonal slice.

David B. Benson wrote:This pronounced tilting of the lower portion of the structure provides a souce of eccentricity giving rise to the diagonal slice.

I would call it more of a rotation caused by the release of stored tension within the structure, but it's possible. Please ensure that you do not phrase unsubstantiated opinion in a manner which implies fact. If you wish to explain in detail how the observed movement would translate into the observed diagonal ejecta, that's great. I will include another GIF or two to show the movement from other video's, and other angles, in order to clarify a more accurate description of the actual movement.

femr2 --- Everyong will, of course, judge for themselves.

David B. Benson wrote:

achimspok wrote:

This pronounced tilting of the lower portion of the structure provided a source of eccentricity giving rise to the diagonal slice.

Soory David,

I see nothing in that GIF file. It just looks like a fake file.

I don't think it's fake at all. I've seen the response of the lower portion before, and that's totally in accordance with my visual assessment. However, the genius of it is in making it so striking and easy to see, indicating a mastery of multimedia manipulation and vision psychology. It is one of the most profound visualizations I've seen on this forum. If it is fake, I'd like to know.

When members accuse others of fakery, they need to supply proof. All you've really done is express your opinion that it looks fake, so perhaps it stops just short of accusation of fraud. Nevertheless, I discourage you from stating such opinions unless you have something substantial to back it up. Fakery is not taken lightly here as it is an evidence-based forum.

I don't recall ever seeing anything faked here, so your post stands out like a beacon.

I do agree that sustained eccentric loading is a possible source for the diagonal slice. Thanks to the public record of the board, you can see that I've mentioned eccentric loading several times as one possible end run around the 'harmless elastic waves'. This came from observing a small expulsion from the NE corner very low down ahead of the collapse front. The best guess was sustained eccentric loading and reaction force from the roll and offset of the upper block.

I think I even mentioned it in this thread!

To me, it was only a reasonable possibility until I saw this GIF, which portrayed sufficient deflection scaling to allow a gross visual quantification. Now it seems like the likely explanation for the little corner puff (stress concentration) and may explain the diagonal slice, which are time and space correlated.

Just my opinion, can't prove it and don't care to try. Look at it! J. H. C*****!!!!

Only a possibility, but if it is assumed, it throws out the notion of no failure occurring below the crush front (other than the damn jets which are supposed to be superficial), which is distinct from all energy dissipated at the crushing front, which is distinct from the harmless waves argument - all of which I've been saying for a long time. This stuff is important!

By focusing on an idealized published model as a target, ancillary assumptions and 'predictions' also become targets. Bazant says 'only harmless elastic waves' and blows off Cherapanov (which was probably the right thing to do) and there's nothing left to explain what diminishes the integrity ahead of the crush front, except explosives.

Hello!

One of the sticky points about interpreting it, and quantifying the displacement, is the effect of the shadow plume on the edges. A problem only worsened by cheap video. However, there appears (visually) to be a bump in the displacement. This is not a claim or a prediction, but I would not be surprised if it correlated well with the onset of the slice and possibly even the fastest interval of expulsion on the opposite side (though not so confident about that - it's not a discrete event).

Well, the elastic waves were certainly harmless in of themselves. What wouldn't be is the quasi-static change from axial load down through the structure to an increasingly eccentric one in various portions of the structure. So yes, actually seeing that northward displacement of the lower portion of the structure suddenly made it all fit together as physics rather than some computer model which left out some of reality.

OneWhiteEye wrote:I don't think it's fake at all. I've seen the response of the lower portion before, and that's totally in accordance with my visual assessment. However, the genius of it is in making it so striking and easy to see, indicating a mastery of multimedia manipulation and vision psychology. It is one of the most profound visualizations I've seen on this forum. If it is fake, I'd like to know.

It's not faked. I'll replicate the animation from my original source videos.
I've done similar for WTC 2, but I'll apply the additional stretch to emphasise the movement....
http://the911forum.freeforums.org/wtc-1-horizontal-motion-thread-t169.html

(WTC2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLkyEvWe9mY

Will sort WTC 1 shortly.

[add] Hmm. Thought it was the NBC video that Achimspok used, but obviously not...



Still shows some movement, but not so clearly. Confirms the movement from a totally separate video though. I'll Work out which clip he used (unless he lets me know first ) and replicate.