The 9/11 Forum

Obviously the axis was at the 89th floor and in place of the 500 row.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdtmQXQJcMw

Well, this absolutely and conclusively means that at that time the 1000,900,800,700 and 600 rows were collapsed by that time.

But why the 500 row stood erected during the whole time?

Am I right that the columns at the ~81st floor were welded? If so, is there any possibility that there could be any mechanism which would be able to collapse that much of the core in so little time?

I'm absolutely confused.

But maybe this video...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8DuceDEc7U

but maybe the lolapse was so shocking that his drugged mind imagined a big fireball

and maybe be was burnt by the falling hot ashes from above

That is one of the really curious things about 9/11.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SSS0DDqfm0

It looks like the bottom of that upper block had to move horizontally at least 20 feet in a few seconds. In addition to breaking all of the columns how much mass had to be moved? So why weren't people who claimed to know physics all over that like white on rice within a few months of 9/11? Don't they have any curiosity?

But then when the plane hit the building at that level 56 minutes earlier the mass moved less than 16 inches and the oscillation damped out in four minutes. What a fascinating anomaly! The magic of 9/11 physics.

psik

An initial rotoscope...

Summing shows static elements. Wouldn't call it pivot point, but center of rotation is right hand side a few floors up...


Overlay...

Transparent Overlay...

Fade...

I'll stick the HD version on YT when I get a chance.

After watching the rotoscope for a while, and thinking about *pivots* I get the following impression...

a) The *effective* pivot point (the static point during rotation) appears to be right at the West face, several floors above the Eastward IZ level.

b) It is not really practical to consider that to be an actual structural pivot, but more the center of rotation. How would we rationalise that with respect to center of mass ?

c) There are a *lot* of upper North and South face elements towards the East face during the initial moments that *overlap* with seemingly intact lower North and South face elements. We should consider what happened within the overlap areas.

d) The rotation is not constant, but accelerates. The rotoscope does not yet take the acceleration into account, so there are elements of lag.

-*-

e) Such a Westerly centre of rotation implies to me that there was no core support throughout the entire depth of the core (from E to W), and that *failure* may have progressed from E to W.

f) Failure of the East face perimeter (and overlap areas) would be required in advance of such for the West face for the observed direction and centre of rotation to occur (by whatever means)

Interesting. I'd better get the rotoscope done over a longer time period, and from additional angles. I think it may be quite revealing.

Copied over from the following thread:
http://the911forum.freeforums.org/wtc1-2-inward-bowing-and-collapse-initiation-models-t274-105.html#p7395

I like the way achimspok takes the movement through rotation into a downward acceleration.

We can see the moment when the last holding connections are broken and an overall downward movement begins to dominate.

It seems that a consensus is approaching.

Maybe it's time to answer the question: what were the 1000-600 rows doing at that point in time?

I humbly suggest the reader to have a look at the "WTC2 Street Level Fireball" thread.

Guys, the images are fantastic.

The next thing is to visualize the possible 1000 CC movement, 900CC movement, ect........

In the achimspok image we can see the core in blue. The blue line farthest right is the 500 CC row and the one farthest to the left is 1000 row CCs. We have stationary lines on the bottom and moving lines above.

For the 1000 CCs we can see the top movement is straight down relative to the bottom meaning the column looses strength somehow and the top portion starts to move straight down. The top portion moves through the bottom portion and rotates around the pivot.

Maybe it's time to answer the question: what were the 1000-600 rows doing at that point in time?

We are able to see the movement of the top portion of 1000, 900, 800, 700, 600 relative to the bottom. stationary portion for all columns just by projecting where they must at any time on the achimspok or femr moving images. Achimspok shows us the 500 row movement as a pivot but you can speculate on the other rows using the same images.

What is happening in the overlap region? Buckling? Broken and displaced weld junctions? Thermite weakening? Bombs? God only knows. But the top portion of the columns are moving by the lower portion of the columns just as you can see by projecting the columns on the images.

In the achimspok image is the bottom portion really stationary as the graphic overlay shows?

Achimspok, when does your west wall break into two sections? How can it pivot like the graphic overlays show if the west wall must remain intact until breaking? Does the lower portion move west while the graphic remains stationary? How would that affect the smooth motion of your 500 CC pivot?

.............................................................

My guess is the pivot point shown in this gif is an illusion.



The part of the building not in rotation just under the 80th floor is not totally stationary relative to earth. It is moving to the west until the hinge breaks.

To see the true axis you have to view the rotation in a frame of reference fixed to floor 80 or 79.

We may then find the true axis to be a bit lower than floor 89.

I'm guessing the true axis is about the same elevation as maximum bend in the west wall just before the hinge breaks.

Major_Tom wrote:My guess is the pivot point shown in this gif is an illusion.

It's certainly not an actual pivot point. It's just stationary point during the initial rotation.
(Pretty sure I indicated that when I posted the image)

I don't think any *pivot point* is stationary. I imagine it *moves* as the mass shifts and members *fail*.

I'll try and get the next segment of rotoscoping done before the new year celebrations kick in.

(I don't think the extended achimspok segment is accurate. Sorry AS)

It's certainly not an actual pivot point. It's just stationary point during the initial rotation.
(Pretty sure I indicated that when I posted the image)

I don't think any *pivot point* is stationary. I imagine it *moves* as the mass shifts and members *fail*.

You did indicate that. The stationary point is useful because it shows us which single point remained stationary relative to earth. This tells us how far the west wall moved westward at it maximum displacement before splitting.

To determine pivot axis we need to do the rotoscope while staying in a frame of reference locked in with the maximum displacement of the west wall at any moment.

In this frame of reference the farthest displacement of the west wall will appear as a stationary point always.

My guess: We see the west wall pushed out by the rotating object. The 500 CCs are already broken by then. The whole core, including the 500 row, has already completely failed. The west wall provides the pivot but the lower west wall is being pushed out at the same time (not only pushed west but away from the building also).

Just a guess.

Is it possible show how would look like a cascading failure (first the pivot is the entire core/1000 row collapses and so on) of the core and it's effect on the axis?

A view from the South...


* West face ejecta
* Straight line expulsion/deformation along the center-line (left to right) of the upper block. Very odd

(I don't think the extended achimspok segment is accurate. Sorry AS)

No it isn't accurate. It's just done by hand to point at the marked behavior. I'm pretty sure that this kind of motion caused the overall tilt + shift. Probably the remained CC buckled at the same time and a 3 story segment rotated. We will see.

achimspok wrote: Probably the remained CC buckled at the same time and a 3 story segment rotated. We will see.

Didn't the bottom of the rotating section move too far horizontally for mere buckling to have caused it? In the video it looks like it moved at least 20 feet. So wouldn't all of the columns have had to be broken?

When the plane impacted the building at 550 mph the building moved less than 16 inches. There is a HUGE difference between 16 inches and 20 feet, a factor of 15. Just the concrete in one floor slab weighed 600 tons. So what force can move thousands of tons 20 feet in a few seconds 50, minutes AFTER the building stopped oscillating from the plane impact?

psik

A quick look at CC action for rotation and some lateral shift...