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achimspok wrote:A flower sized puff of dust at the lowest edge of motion wasn't the initiation.
Sorry but the idea of attacking the (white) perimeter panel at the 78th floor at that late point in time appears at best unbelievable. At that point in time no one could have expected that that perimeter panels would have changed anything in the progress .
achimspok wrote:The better question is, what is the core doing? ... Why the floors above apparently smoothly bow inwards apparently without that heavy resistance or massive concrete dust... ? One part of the answer is pretty sure the elasticity of the white panel and the outward speed of the spring back cracking the floor.
achimspok wrote: Another factor appears to be that the lower floors between core and perimeter pushing "outwards" while the panels were pulled inward by the panels above.
achimspok wrote:The black falling panel apparently came from the above the 85th floor and we may expect the upper edge of the bowing area up there. The question why there are those dust ejections at 78 but not at 79, 80, 81... apparently has to be answered by that area. 78 was the lower edge of the bowing.
The airplane damage might explain something too. At least apparently. (In the case of WTC1 the airplane damage plays no role for the direction of the tilting.)
I think we should try to go back from the effect to the cause. Right now we take the effect for a cause. The involved forced were above imagination. A flower sized puff of dust at the lowest edge of motion wasn't the initiation.
This thread can move to the question of the core.
9:37 In the South Tower,a person on the 106th floor tells a dispatcher that floors below are beginning to collapse.
NYTimes, January 9, 2005, '102 Minutes':
"...Here is the moment at 9:52 a.m. when the south tower collapsed: 'The voices from the 105th floor, 20 stories above the top of the impact zone, grew more urgent. One woman called 911 and said the floor was collapsing. A moment later, a man called from 106 and said a floor below was collapsing. ..."
911 Commission Report p304:
"9:37, a civilian on the 106th floor of the South Tower reported to a 911 operator that a lower floor -the "90-something floor"- was collapsing."
This information was conveyed inaccurately by the 911 operator to an NYPD dispatcher... telling NYPD officers "the 106th floor is crumbling" at 9:52..."
"9:41 am NYPD dispatcher advises units that floor 106 in WTC2 is collapsing...
9:51 am NYPD dispatcher advises that at WTC2, floor 106 is crumbling..."
Floor collapses before the buildings fell
"At 9:24, fire rescue received a call from a frightened man who said that the stairway had collapsed on the 105th floor of Tower Two. It would be an omen." - p. 641
"At 9:47, in a nearby office, a woman called fire rescue with an ominous message. The floor underneath her, she said, was beginning to collapse."
James Bamford, "Body of Secrets," (2002 update) p. 64
Major_Tom wrote:Everyone must follow their own instincts.
Major_Tom wrote:If that is true, and people are confusing cause (shockwave) with effect (breaking bolts), you folks are walking past a huge opportunity.
I am not sure on the rotation axis. It can not be so high, the red point moved eastward during the flipping. But I understand why you positioned it there; the breaking level on the west face went westward, so the rotation axis should be high. But the movement was not a simple rotation; there was also downward move.
achimspok wrote:There was no downward movement but just rotation during the first a little more than 1 second. During that time the NE corner goes down and the NW corner goes upwards. So somewhere between the corners must be a point of neither up nor down movement.
achimspok wrote:Of course, the push/pull mechanism (floor slap between core and perimeter) at the 78th floor appears small in relation to the floors above but it seems that 78 is the first floor where the floor slap somehow resists the inward motion of the perimeter. Therefore we see a line of fine dust before the push/break shoots out that broccoli cloud.
That does not mean the break is made by the dust ejection, this was there before the break. The break is made by the upper part compression and floor trusses downward pulling.
achimspok wrote:Hmm, no upwards move... may be. In my video it looks like the NW kink moves upwards and the columns get stretched or... but maybe once again a video compression issue?
What do you think about that?
Major_Tom wrote:We could really use a visual of how IB changes over time.
IB is a function of floor level, column number and time. IB=IB(f, c, t)
There must be a way to translate IB into some kind of structural sagging within the 1000 (and 900?) column rows.
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