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WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Analysis, observations and theory related to progression.

Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby Heiwa » Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:16 pm

femr2 wrote:
Heiwa wrote:I think it is relevant in most threads!

I do not agree. Respect lack.

Let me clear this up for you, with a nice simple scenario.

Let us assume that during initiation the cap separates from the rest of the structure. (We'll blow the core in this scenario.)

It descends and crushes up until the entire cap has been crushed up. A few lower floors can join in. We have no axial column impacts, so we're going to strip the floors from the core and perimeter pretty quickly. The cap mass CANNOT sit on top of a static floor, as the connections are simply not strong enough.

We now have over 10 floors of mass (even if we lose some mass out the side), which is going to drop onto the next floor down, however long it takes.

That mass exceeds the static load capacity of the floor-perimeter-core connections.

The next floor drops.

Floor-perimeter-core strength does not increase.

Repeat.

Job done.

We need to perhaps do a little bit of tweaking around the mechanical floor regions, and we obviously still have the core and perimeter to deal with in some manner, but the irritating Part C just destroyed the rest of the floors below. Albeit probably rather slower than witnessed.

I do not in any way suggest this explains the exact behaviour of the WTC descent events, but it certainly answers your question.

Now, please show this thread, if not the entire board, some MORE respect, and quit the Part C cannot whatever. It's very tedious. And wrong. Change the record. Focus upon initiation, perimeter failure and ejection mechanisms, core failure mechanisms (especially post primary descent), and specifics of the timings.


It sounds like the pancake theory. However, the lower part A can of course carry the upper part C also after local failures. That's why C cnnot crush down A. Quite simple, actually.
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Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby femr2 » Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:14 pm

Heiwa wrote:It sounds like the pancake theory.

It does indeed, though it is not, as I *blew* the core to initiate things.

However, the lower part A can of course carry the upper part C also after local failures.

On what ? I *blew* the core. No axial column impacts. Rest of the structure will serve to strip the floor pans from the perimeter and core. Only thing subject to load is the next floor down (A bit more complex within the core area itself, but the description more than suffices to answer your many-year long question, which I'm sure has been answered many times before. Remaining perimeter serving to funnel mass onto that floor. Static load capacity exceeded, runaway OOS descent ensues. Am sure you are fully aware I'm fully opposed to the Official Theory, but this Part C drone simply irritates and detracts from more detailed discussion. Nuff.

That's why C cnnot crush down A. Quite simple, actually.

Just described how it could occur, with the appropriate left-overs. If you wish to continue the discussion, please do so on a separate thread.

Again, I'm not advocating that is what actually happened, but it serves to highlight that the Part C/A stuff is too simplistic, suffers from the same axial column impact requirements as many other theories and serves no purpose in more detailed discussion of each descent.
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Location: UK

Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby peterene1 » Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:26 pm

I'm not the right person to judge, but you have been politely asked to do something, heiwa, so please.......

Anyway, if the ejecta represents a simple linear firing of the charges, than the destruction would have reached the ground just some 2 seconds after the freefalling debris......(just to stay OT)

From achimspok measurements it seems that some elements did impact the ground long before the freefaling memebres hit the ground, wait for him...).
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Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby OneWhiteEye » Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:55 pm

Heiwa:

I'm sorry you're no longer able to run JREFers in circles endlessly with the repetition of a few simple phrases, but I'm not going to let you take up the cause here. There are hundreds of threads covering all sorts of minutiae and not every one of them needs to be peppered with what you personally believe is the overarching concern. It amounts to needless dilution and distraction, and is not generally appreciated.

Please respect the other members and thread topics. This is not a suggestion, the moderator cap is on and I can put it in ugly moderator red if that helps get the point across. I'd like to believe we can speak person-to-person and get the same result, but history has shown otherwise. There's nothing to stop you from starting a Heiwa Challenge/Axiom thread and see if you get any takers. Frankly, the more I think about it, the better it sounds. It could be a highly selective magnet...

In any case, please stop being a broken record in thread after thread.

PS I wrote another post earlier, the board ate it. I retyped the above and THEN discovered this activity had been reported when posting. Heiwa, consider this a formal warning:

Cease and desist the "Part C cannot... " derailment. Immediately.
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Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby femr2 » Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:37 am

Trace data for BBC footage (Frame, relative y-pos *):

Code: Select all
130   71.478
131   73.045
132   72.736
133   72.036
134   70.526
135   65.401
136   65.651
137   62.688
138   58.245
139   50.793
140   30.963
141   36.471
142   35.973
143   34.856
144   19.206
145   17.986
146   8.444
147   -8.872
148   -16.842
149   -16.715
150   -15.03
151   -16.057
152   -12.834
153   -26.555
154   -29.143
155   -31.451
156   -58.323
157   -60.854
158   -63.506
159   -63.565
160   -62.98
161   -66.029
162   -67.239
163   -70.146
164   -73.73
165   -81.689
166   -90.671
167   -95.464
168   -101.891
169   -105.291
170   -109.388
171   -113.679
172   -116.263
173   -117.52
174   -121.377
175   -135.232
176   -144.56
177   -156.195
178   -158.705
179   -161.843
180   -163.761
181   -166.826
182   -166.202
183   -169.719
184   -172.745
185   -183.883
186   -189.557
187   -192.329
188   -195.33
189   -192.605
190   -195.325
191   -199.492
192   -205.772
193   -211.521
194   -215.362
195   -215.005
196   -218.576
197   -212.915
198   -217.127
199   -223.083
200   -228.553
201   -234.079
202   -242.512
203   -249.234
204   -252.037
205   -257.199
206   -262.717
207   -264.643
208   -277.553
209   -281.866
210   -284.672
211   -284.75
212   -298.024
213   -293.612
214   -299.239
215   -304.26
216   -306.506
217   -309.672
218   -306.948
219   -314.989
220   -318.127
221   -322.135
222   -326.637
223   -329.585
224   -331.517
225   -333.856
226   -329.76
227   -339.665
228   -342.449
229   -344.483
230   -345.433
231   -352.288
232   -353.61
233   -355.348
234   -361.405
235   -366.535
236   -375.763
237   -379.128
238   -386.247
239   -386.325
240   -394.274
241   -398.522
242   -412.001
243   -415.727
244   -419.933
245   -423.233
246   -428.663
247   -431.46
248   -435.554
249   -442.583
250   -443.426
251   -446.863
252   -450.942
253   -453.416
254   -466.095


* Camera movement effects reduced by tracking of local building corner and subtraction from pixel values.

Raw data:

Code: Select all
Building Corner (Near)            Ejecta      
130   1.064   13.204      130   709.81   84.682
131   1.064   16.804      131   713.091   89.849
132   0.864   27.604      132   713.82   100.34
133   0.664   34.004      133   709.822   106.04
134   0.714   37.304      134   709.974   107.83
135   0.994   51.704      135   710.523   117.105
136   1.134   62.544      136   707.866   128.195
137   0.631   66.498      137   705.036   129.186
138   0.514   77.817      138   706.256   136.062
139   1.52   81.784      139   712.141   132.577
140   4.164   81.177      140   716.491   112.14
141   1.141   82.737      141   710.68   119.208
142   0.815   82.33      142   704.518   118.303
143   1.262   82.325      143   705.124   117.181
144   3.583   89.044      144   704.912   108.25
145   2.334   91.675      145   699.755   109.661
146   0.777   86.815      146   686.863   95.259
147   1.02   92.336      147   684.44   83.464
148   5.784   101.264      148   690.688   84.422
149   13.845   103.468      149   691.907   86.753
150   10.999   106.996      150   684.445   91.966
151   9.591   110.228      151   680.087   94.171
152   20.088   113.071      152   684.259   100.237
153   24.618   116.103      153   684.234   89.548
154   17.569   121.195      154   672.57   92.052
155   16.798   124.35      155   666.76   92.899
156   22.08   126.131      156   667.607   67.808
157   26.423   129.91      157   666.356   69.056
158   30.05   135.427      158   666.009   71.921
159   30.108   138.691      159   663.358   75.126
160   21.81   146.263      160   651.724   83.283
161   17.31   151.513      161   645.727   85.484
162   19.179   153.261      162   646.966   86.022
163   21.874   160.784      163   646.889   90.638
164   17.564   168.501      164   642.039   94.771
165   14.776   174.456      165   637.892   92.767
166   17.941   179.617      166   640.156   88.946
167   22.184   184.908      167   643.711   89.444
168   19.61   189.488      168   642.002   87.597
169   17.885   189.523      169   640.424   84.232
170   21.641   193.116      170   643.775   83.728
171   25.85   197.928      171   647.808   84.249
172   26.817   201.744      172   648.982   85.481
173   23.452   204.464      173   644.997   86.944
174   19.887   207.125      174   642.391   85.748
175   21.033   209.502      175   643.215   74.27
176   22.438   214.915      176   643.705   70.355
177   22.366   216.92      177   643.179   60.725
178   24.395   221.516      178   644.191   62.811
179   24.595   231.08      179   643.929   69.237
180   20.327   239.991      180   637.977   76.23
181   22.291   245.889      181   638.976   79.063
182   30.439   256.292      182   646.097   90.09
183   31.895   263.865      183   645.15   94.146
184   29.119   268.083      184   641.016   95.338
185   31.628   274.919      185   641.613   91.036
186   35.69   281.716      186   644.225   92.159
187   36.362   286.221      187   643.676   93.892
188   36.893   290.083      188   643.345   94.753
189   35.594   294.457      189   641.854   101.852
190   33.115   291.321      190   638.343   95.996
191   34.027   292.457      191   639.061   92.965
192   36.693   294.558      192   641.033   88.786
193   35.264   294.47      193   637.913   82.949
194   35.051   295.972      194   635.819   80.61
195   39.218   297.198      195   636.475   82.193
196   38.736   298.432      196   636.531   79.856
197   36.9   299.706      197   634.933   86.791
198   37.619   301.714      198   634.653   84.587
199   38.645   302.351      199   635.124   79.268
200   37.449   304.623      200   632.139   76.07
201   38.155   305.906      201   631.553   71.827
202   40.656   307.371      202   632.599   64.859
203   41.145   309.626      203   631.377   60.392
204   42.58   311.065      204   629.624   59.028
205   42.495   315.226      205   629.141   58.027
206   42.98   321.242      206   630.173   58.525
207   46.53   325.5      207   632.844   60.857
208   45.29   338.129      208   633.818   60.576
209   46.031   348.237      209   632.242   66.371
210   43.986   357.98      210   629.285   73.308
211   44.249   368.966      211   630.209   84.216
212   48.445   382.391      212   631.292   84.367
213   47.708   390.048      213   629.864   96.436
214   44.28   396.709      214   626.59   97.47
215   52.366   401.429      215   629.039   97.169
216   56.523   403.685      216   631.12   97.179
217   54.907   406.791      217   628.537   97.119
218   52.025   408.121      218   625.492   101.173
219   51.378   409.388      219   625.088   94.399
220   53.132   410.035      220   625.265   91.908
221   54.819   410.136      221   625.099   88.001
222   53.616   410.865      222   622.276   84.228
223   51.065   413.61      223   619.864   84.025
224   54.901   417.23      224   621.294   85.713
225   56.34   422.369      225   622.095   88.513
226   54.36   426.266      226   619.976   96.506
227   56.474   429.192      227   619.998   89.527
228   60.304   431.783      228   622.352   89.334
229   58.313   433.435      229   619.57   88.952
230   57.863   434.458      230   617.91   89.025
231   57.017   436.215      231   615.809   83.927
232   55.121   437.992      232   613.836   84.382
233   51.234   440.353      233   611.306   85.005
234   46.673   443.107      234   606.503   81.702
235   39.273   444.451      235   597.184   77.916
236   30.266   446.887      236   588.038   71.124
237   20.904   450.426      237   577.557   71.298
238   21.807   455.099      238   569.478   68.852
239   21.606   455.561      239   567.312   69.236
240   21.344   458.781      240   565.521   64.507
241   22.161   461.926      241   565.578   63.404
242   25.158   464.557      242   565.931   52.556
243   29.546   466.538      243   570.119   50.811
244   32.749   468.286      244   572.063   48.353
245   35.508   470.516      245   573.997   47.283
246   39.68   471.947      246   575.594   43.284
247   40.664   473.65      247   576.563   42.19
248   39.432   476.436      248   575.635   40.882
249   38.102   478.129      249   572.209   35.546
250   39.545   477.595      250   572.013   34.169
251   42.089   477.878      251   573.775   31.015
252   43.072   478.728      252   574.443   27.786
253   45.256   477.992      253   579.832   24.576
254   49.084   477.567      254   576.003   11.472
255   49.075   476.786            
256   50.389   476.276            
257   51.322   477.05            
258   50.602   475.692            
259   50.916   475.844            
260   52.398   478.494            
261   51.284   479.016            
262   50.865   479.422            
263   53.292   481.74            
264   53.742   482.407            
265   51.564   484.025            
266   50.528   485.523            
267   52.242   487.408            
268   57.147   487.654            
269   58.181   489.284            
270   57.306   490.134            
271   61.94   489.987            
272   61.05   493.082            
273   62.652   493.375            
274   66.702   493.256            
275   68.898   495.981            
276   65.974   497.945            
277   65.384   498.243            
278   67.415   500.982            
279   68.655   501.94            
280   65.683   502.956            
281   65.308   504.872            
282   66.463   507.293            
283   64.7   509.463            
284   64.413   512.502            
285   66.644   516.177            
286   66.975   520.557            
287   63.74   524.294            
288   62.742   528.372            
289   63.702   532.837            
290   65.369   537.741            
291   65.755   543.885            
292   65.72   549.311            
293   67.198   553.317            
294   68.907   558.23            
295   66.368   561.508            
296   62.613   565.187            
297   62.952   567.839            
298   66.505   570.711            
299   65.748   575.164            
300   62.911   579.292            
301   62.827   581.506            
302   66.411   582.077            
303   70.167   585.397            
304   68.667   586.051            
305   66.217   586.629            
306   67.919   587.857            
307   70.433   586.926            
308   69.706   586.805            
309   68.394   588.265            
310   68.213   587.902            
311   67.415   587.323            
312   67.878   587.291            
313   71.43   587.339            
314   72.386   585.915            
315   68.95   584.963            
316   69.199   585.233            
317   71.885   585.372            
318   72.879   584.997            
319   69.054   584.984            
320   67.095   584.288            
321   67.201   585.24            
322   66.137   586.34            
323   61.909   585.449            
324   60.208   586.121            
325   61.874   587.67            
326   65.932   588.833            
327   67.028   589.46            
328   59.86   593.032            
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Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby achimspok » Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:48 am

sure I'm late but check this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G54HRMUcPGE

Imo these ejecta represent the actual collapse at a uniform acceleration of about 4.8m/s² since initiation (perimeter 98th floor). The later collapse of the north face caused a higher collapse elevation but at about the same acceleration. You can follow that "collapse wave" including it's ground impact visible in the seismic data.
That destruction wave appeared and disappeared from the surface suggesting a faster core collapse may probably ahead of that wave. Imo it is not air pressure because there are tons of material in it and it seems to be impossible that these masses where simply "blown" downwards into still intact floors and there out of the windows. That wave is the destruction of the floor.
There are huge dust jets at about the 55th floor west /56th floor north. These occurred in the moment that south collapse front reached these floors.
Obviously a massive collapse in the south wasn't necessarily visible in the north or even the north half of the west. Imo that behavior suggests that the 85/87 and 75/77 dust jets are also a sign of an ongoing collapse at these floors.
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Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby Major_Tom » Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:38 am

There are huge dust jets at about the 55th floor west /56th floor north. These occurred in the moment that south collapse front reached these floors.


Yup. The timing is important. Suggesting a massive, rapid over-pressurization of that level (more intense than other local floors)? A unique over-pressurization of those two floors?

Shooting down hallways? Lining up with internal corridors? Anyone do a study of the alignment of internal passageways on these floors?

Imo that behavior suggests that the 85/87 and 75/77 dust jets are also a sign of an ongoing collapse at these floors.


Should be explored. I'll pay more attention to it.

You can follow that "collapse wave" including it's ground impact visible in the seismic data.


We need proof of this.

In your videos you include many ideas in one clip. If you refer to one to address a question could you give the time in the video when the idea is presented?

I think I saw this addressed in one of your videos but a solid connection with this w face s corner destruction wave (OOS sw) would be appreciated.
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Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby achimspok » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:25 am

I think I saw this addressed in one of your videos


sorry, I gave the link to the video first and wrote a lot of things below. Wasn't that good idea but the video is linked above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G54HRMUcPGE
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Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby femr2 » Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:02 pm

Major_Tom wrote:Shooting down hallways? Lining up with internal corridors? Anyone do a study of the alignment of internal passageways on these floors?

I haven't in much detail, but this GIF shows the common corridor layout for a couple of floors:
Image

Would appear to be too far South for the East-West corridor (Hope I have the image the right way round) and the North-South corridor is pretty central. Correlation to large dust-jets is possible.

I'll generate similar for the specific floors in question.
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Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby Major_Tom » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:30 pm

Would appear to be too far South for the East-West corridor (Hope I have the image the right way round) and the North-South corridor is pretty central. Correlation to large dust-jets is possible.


We are probably confusing issues.

The OOS sw destruction front (as I define it) is the main topic of this thread. There is no way I would consider this front to line up with the core. Too far south. It seems to line up with the 1000 row columns on the left (northward) and goes to the sw corner. Crazy guess would be from the sw corner to about 65 feet northward. (See what I am getting at? If we view WTC1 from the west, this destruction front is from the right corner to about 1/3rd the way into the building.)

Individual (or pairs of) point-like ejections are a different matter. We see them along the w and n faces and I wouldn't be surprised if they line up with core corridors.

We must distinguish between the collapse front you highlight in the OP and these individual point-like ejections.


My previous point is that the leading floor of your collapse front (OOS sw front) seems to arrive at floors 77, 75 at the exact same time we see the emergence of the point ejections from those same floors.

If this were true, ....well....that would be incredible. Why? Because it confirms that there are pairs of floors which become overpressurized at a rate which cannot compare to the floors either above or below.

Ventilation my ass.
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Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby achimspok » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:39 pm

85N/87W jets
Image

87W walks upwards and towards the north corner
http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9691/85wwalksup.jpg

87W starts about in the middle of the floor and expands towards the north corner
77W visible in the Mark Heath video (right blue) starts in the center of the floor
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/6493/westjets.jpg

75N/77W jets
Image

56N/55W jets
Image

41N/43W jets (center of north jet invisible)
Image
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Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby Major_Tom » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:40 pm

Ejections seem to come before OOS sw destruction front arrives at a particular elevation.

Does this seem true to other posters?

Guessing the debunking argument: Ejections from floors very close to mechanical rooms may be connected with building systems (air passageways and ducts). Can you prove this is not true?

(I don't beleive this but ask it as an advocate for the devil himself.)
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Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby achimspok » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:06 pm

My previous point is that the leading floor of your collapse front (OOS sw front) seems to arrive at floors 77, 75 at the exact same time we see the emergence of the point ejections from those same floors.

If this were true, ....well....that would be incredible. Why? Because it confirms that there are pairs of floors which become overpressurized at a rate which cannot compare to the floors either above or below.


The destruction wave in the south might have initially started with the collapse of 98fl south perimeter (earliest possibility). That destruction wave looks much like some very fast "pancaking" (4.8m/s²) and reaches the lower dust jets 56/55 and 41/43 in time.
Nevertheless, there is no way for that front to reach the floors of the dust jets 85/87 and 75/77.

Image
Hi Res diagram: http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/3508/snapc.jpg

In the above diagram you see the start times of all the jets 55 and above (as visible in a lot of different videos). The fat red curve represents a 4.8m/s² acceleration beginning at the 98th floor at a time 0.7 seconds prior to the onset of the tilting. I have chosen that moment because it is the end of a 0.7 seconds pause in the seismic records. Pause? Yes - imo something either lost connection or stopped to move - something like that. If the floors collapsed at this time and prior to the tilting then the front would reach the 55th floor in the moment of the dust jet as observed. These collapses are much to slow to reach all the above dust jets. It seems to be impossible that the destruction of the south side started earlier. Videos of the west and south west showing no sign of a collapse prior to the tilting and the huge dust clouds immediately after.

But the situation gets worst. Even free fall acceleration (inside the shafts) cannot reach these dust jet-start times and elevations (thin red curve). As you can see in the gives I posted the 75/77 jets match the hallways BUT there is one floor between left out (same for all pairs). In the Lethin photos it appears that the west jets came from the floor above but these photos where shot from the north and from below. Hence, we are looking upwards.
Furthermore, not all jets came from the hallways e.g. the 44W jet occurs opposite to a wall (columns). The position of the 85 jets makes no "logical" sense too (other than the columns).

Finally the piston theory is highly questionable. The 85 jets emerged while the south collapse (invisible and away from the perimeter) was still in the impact zone. The 3psi fuel-air explosion and subsequent fires had taken everything out of the way of the pressure: windows, elevator doors... The collapse itself was still "slow" (less than 2 seconds after the north face collapse.)
Nevertheless dust jet 75/77 emerged prior to the fireball from floor 92. The pressure - if there was any significant pressure at that time - cannot have passed the opened windows on 93 and 92 and generate extreme and ongoing overpressure 70 meters below. It wasn't just some shock wave but it seemingly started with a shock wave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acTcwA_YHuA
In this video you can see that something really big was shot between the columns at 77W. A short time later the same window was hit by that overpressure and a lot of dust was blown far out. That big sticking thing was finally blown out too.
And back to the theme of this thread: The 77W dust jet looks exactly like the 55W dust jet. The 55W dust jet emerged on a floor in the very same moment that floor was hit by a fast and violent destruction wave in the south (no visible sign in the north but a dust jet). 77 was not hit by a destruction wave. 85 neither. But it looks like a shockwave followed by the same jets that apparently are connected to the destruction front. Either they aren't or there is an invisible collapse going on at the lower escalator 77 and the lower MER floors.

"there are pairs of floors which become overpressurized at a rate which cannot compare to the floors either above or below." Exactly!
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Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby achimspok » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:22 pm

"Ejections from floors very close to mechanical rooms may be connected with building systems"


I try to imagine that debunker argument. I close my eyes and see the collapse at about the 95th floor (we still speak about the NIST perimeter collapse at 98). All these channels being smashed + crushed + ripped into pieces + nearly vaporized ... but there isn't that much pressure at the 95th floor without windows and extensive airplane damage. How can that pressure go into the smashed channels move loads of dusty air at high speed down and eject it at the floor above the MER but not on the upper MER but on the lower MER right opposite to the hallway.
No, imo there is no serious chance to bring that air (anyhow) from the collapse zone down to the dust jets. And these jets do not match the design of the HVAC system.

I thought about local elevators below the collapse zone. May be these cabins fell (without emergency brakes) into the pit at the 78 sky lobby. Something like that might have caused explosion like pressure and a lot of dust but on the 78th floor. A lot of debris and dust could have followed down the shafts. But at the 78th or 44th was no dust. The jets came from one floor below the sky lobby. At least for the lower floors 40+ I found one single video frame that proves without a doubt that the dust came not from the sky lobby (posted GIFs above). And of course fallen elevators would have caused the same effect on the east side and no effect at the 75th floor.
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Re: WTC1 Debris Ejecta Traversal Rate (Linear/Terminal Velocity)

Postby Major_Tom » Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:12 am

We consider the only two vertical multifloor passageways to be elevator shafts and HVAC ducting (and stairways with fire rated doors designed to remain closed on every level).

No other possibility?

Therefore the core blueprints should tell us all we need to know.

Another note on the pointlike ejections: According to piston theory they act as a type of "pressure meter" for the floor from which they come.

What type of ejection velocities are we seeing? Does intensity of the individual ejections increase as we go down the building as expected from a piston theory? Does ejection speed vary from pair to pair?

If the ejections are actually just a "pressure meter" for global conditions on that particular floor, what would this tell us about the pressures that whole floor is experiencing at any given time?

The variation of pressures on successive floors seems to follow an unnatural pattern, no?

We are discovering sources of pressure on specific paired floors with no mechanical (mechanistic) explanation.

It's my guess that individual ducts or shafts couldn't possibly move the quantity of air needed to almost instantly pressurize an entire floor. I'd bet that could be proven mathematically (if necessary. I do not believe it necessary).


I've never considered a front of loose debris capable of making a significantly pressurized system. I am also aware that fire codes are designed so air cannot move freely through multiple floors. Strong firedoors exist for a reason on each floor.
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