The 9/11 Forum

femr2 wrote:

Trippy wrote:The stair way continues, they just moved it on the floor plan every few floors, and connected it with (protected) corridors to avoid people walking down a 110 storey vertical shaft.

As far as the AC duct goes, on floor 82 there's a pipe shaft between the AC plenum and the AC shaft, and the pipe shaft appears to extend all the way up to floor 108.

On floor 83, the area imediately above this area is open space.

I don't see those features on the plans. Please highlight with images.

Sure thing, it won't be for a couple of hours though.

Which features would you like hilighted?
I don't know if the corridors are marked on the plans, I came across a reference to them when I was trying to determine if there was any information to suggest that stairway 2 was damaged by the initial impact.

Adendum - for the sake of clarity, when I say there's "A pipe shaft between the AC plenum and the AC shaft, I don't mean it connects them, I mean that it sits between them (in the same way a slice of meat sits between two slices of bread in a sandwich).

So in all future debate on ejections I'd humbly request that both

1) Pressurization
2) Mechanism (pathway, window preference)

must be explained. I've never seen a good debate on the ejections. I hope we can be the first to explore the subject in depth.


Geometry: Some of these ejections happen in pairs, coming out of the n and w faces separated by about 3 floors (at least three pairs follow this pattern). Nearly impossible to explain via pressure build-up only.

No, the pairs emerge from three floors, while leaving the middle floor out

75N/77W.....

I'll ask achimspok and maybe I'll come up with a complete 4D list of the dust jets.

peterene1 wrote:No, the pairs emerge from three floors, while leaving the middle floor out

75N/77W.....

I'll ask achimspok and maybe I'll come up with a complete 4D list of the dust jets.

The 75th floor was an MER, and contained the return air plenum for the Air Conditioning system.

The return air plenum, which incidentally was on the north side of the building, oriented east-west (well, part of it was anyway, there was also part of it on the south side of the building).

That is a joke, right? This cannot account for symetricity nor the symetric timing of the jets. Wait for the argument to develop, then argue about it. You took it out of context.

peterene1 wrote:That is a joke, right? This cannot account for symetricity nor the symetric timing of the jets. Wait for the argument to develop, then argue about it. You took it out of context.

This is a joke right? Your lack of imagination is not among my premises.

You have failed to consider the fact that the size and shape of return air plenum on the north side is different from the one on the south side, not to mention the fact that the placement of openings into the return air plenum is different between the north and south faces.

Plus, on the 76th floor the location of the stairwell changes.

Nope, I did coinsider it. I just say that you should wait for the argument to develope, before attacking it, because then it is only about taking things out of the context, you know?

peterene1 wrote:Nope, I did coinsider it. I just say that you should wait for the argument to develope, before attacking it, because then it is only about taking things out of the context, you know?

What precisely do you think that I am attacking by stating that there was a return air plenum on the North side of the building?

Would you think that I was attacking something if I stated that the sky was blue?

It's obvious that because of your (unwarranted) personal opinion (of me) you're taking my posts out of context, if you can't keep your personal feelings out of the conversation, then I have little interest in discussing anything with you.

femr2 wrote:Dust Jet #1



Accurate floor position should be possible.

Will add another angle to determine West face position asap.

As far as the floor 75 dust jet goes, it looks to me like it's coming out of pretty much the middle of the north face.

Looking at the blueprint for the 75th floor, there was a corridor that ran north south through the entire length of the core. It looks like that either directly, or indirectly, this corridor is open to various elevator and ac shafts (as well as stairwells).

The corridor is adjacent to an exit from the return air plenum in the northwest corner of the building, and there's what looks like a rarger large AC shaft that passes through an electrical substation that's in about the middle of the north face (but a similar structure also exists on the southern side as well).

I'm afraid not, we will have to wait. Maybe I'll try to get the data from his videos. Let's wait.

femr2 wrote:

Trippy wrote:As far as the floor 75 dust jet goes, it looks to me like it's coming out of pretty much the middle of the north face.

I posted earlier that it's North of centre, and that I'm just looking for a clear still. A fuzzy one may have to do.

:Head Scratch:
Did I get my floors/faces mixed up? I was talking about the (apparently) lower of the two dust jets in your animation. The one on the face your looking at.

femr2 wrote:It does appear that you are *set* on HVAC. I really don't want to start referencing external discussions, but it's clear that the subject has been thrashed around for a very long time.

Apperances can be deceiving. HVAC structures aren't the only structures that i've referenced are they.

femr2 wrote:It is only through looking at the common properties of ALL *dust jets* that factors can be ruled in and out.

Perhaps, but it doesn't mean that we can't do any work with what we currently have, and then double check it once we have more info.

femr2 wrote:

Trippy wrote:

femr2 wrote:I posted earlier that it's North of centre, and that I'm just looking for a clear still. A fuzzy one may have to do.

:Head Scratch:
Did I get my floors/faces mixed up? I was talking about the (apparently) lower of the two dust jets in your animation. The one on the face your looking at.

Perhaps. I'm talking about the one with the big red annotation line pointing at it within the animation.

Nawww, I was addressing the the dust jet facing the camera.

femr2 wrote:

femr2 wrote:It does appear that you are *set* on HVAC. I really don't want to start referencing external discussions, but it's clear that the subject has been thrashed around for a very long time.

Apperances can be deceiving. HVAC structures aren't the only structures that i've referenced are they.

Still. Let's get some more data first...then comparisons can be made...

I absolutely agree, but how cool would an opportunity to make predictions based on various ideas or sub-structures be?