The 9/11 Forum

Dave, I addressed that question to you for two reasons:

1) Your background in physics (that is where my education lies also).

2) Your intriguing comment about me to R Mackey at JREF when I addressed the same question to him and recorded his response (after double-checking that his response was complete) in this forum.


Both of yourselves imply that you have some expertise in answering physical questions concerning the WTC collapses. I wanted to see that expertise displayed and that is why I addressed this question to you (and specified you answer be based in physics).

Unless you have something more to add, I believe we have seen the limits of such expertise.

Femr, in this thread.we discussed a flash and damage to the WTC2 NE corner about 10 floors above collapse initation.

There were links to good video of this phenomenon from multiple angles and one of a wonderful close-up of the event.

Unfortumately, we never captured the images in a short educational video clip.

It is quite damning evidence and important to the case we are presenting.

If willing, could you capture those damning images in such a clip when you have time to do so?

(Additional View Added)

Major_Tom wrote:Femr, in this thread.we discussed a flash and damage to the WTC2 NE corner about 10 floors above collapse initation.

If willing, could you capture those damning images in such a clip when you have time to do so?

Of course...


Note the 'flash' and debris/smoke/deformation in the upper region.


New close-up view of initial moments.


Note the multi-floor damage/deformation to the corner of the building as it descends.
This is the damage caused by the event above, but a lot closer-up.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=D0EA64EF20744201

What could account for explosions in upper floors of WTC1 at 8:56 am?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHr5NMIvmUU

Matt wrote:What could account for explosions in upper floors of WTC1 at 8:56 am?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHr5NMIvmUU

Peterene has specific data on each 'dust jet' event, I believe. Perhaps he could clarify the position correlation for the pre-descent 'flashes' and smoke ejecta shown in the video.

I'll add this to the pot:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV4HtDGokhk
(Video set to 1fps to allow scrubbing in YT)

What are the odds of the same 'dust jets' appearing in WTC 2 in exactly the same manner as for WTC 1 ?

Well, I don't do direct photo-documentation, achimspok does

all my data = more or less achimspok's data

The ST dust jets are harder to spot, because of the collapse nature (started lower...and the sun also screwed up things a little bit).

So precise time/place analysis was done only for the NT dust jets.

From that we can learn that the dust jet's can not correspond to the piston theory, debris in elevators theory, or HVAC theory.

In fact, the squibs are expressions of core collapses at (almost?) the same floor.(if you view it in context )seismic data and so on, you will see a clear proof of very fast core collapse, that preluded the exterior collapse.(if there's anyone who is not happy...... that I'm not going to explain it all, don't worry, I've posted it in my what we know list and I did post a links to the two explaining videos....thousand times.....so..)

(the NT jets emerged in pairs separated by one floor....75N/77W...).

From that I would bet that the squib emerges from the floor 30 +/- 1 floor.......

because I think that edit the north of the dust jet (the core orientation is different) pair is emerging from the 31st floor



________________________

Edited for a stupid, stupid mistake................

Matt wrote:What could account for explosions in upper floors of WTC1 at 8:56 am?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHr5NMIvmUU

Omg, they placed small bombs on the windows to make the fires more sinister!!!

i've never seen similiar flashes in any other fire. looks like magnesium or something equally bright.
what was near the windows, was truss seats, and it wouldn't take much to explosives/incendiary to unseat them.
perhaps, there were many more flashes going off that were not captured on video. i've seen other flashes on other videos. "9/11, explosive reality" has a good compilation.
could be that they went off too early, due to heat or something. could be that they were supposed to go then, but someone packed too much explosive in a few spots.

the one with the 'puff' is hard to explain away as 'falling glass' or 'exploding aerosol cans' (LOL at that one!).



that is an awesome capture of a line of charges unzipping the corner, top to bottom. the flashes are the same colour as the random flashes seen in the windows.

I'll add this to the pot:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV4HtDGokhk
(Video set to 1fps to allow scrubbing in YT)

Also, let's keep our eyes on the NE corner ejections as much as we can.

Trust me, guys. NE corner between collapse initiation elevation and at least the lower mechanical room is a known vertical seam. No sh*t.

I pointed that out in another thread but didn't receive a response.


Femr, I think the NE corner of WTC2 (and the weird ejections along the NW corner, WTC1) is the place to look to understand what vertical seam cuts look like.

Your video clip catches that. Please observe how the small fagile piece of N face perimeter hovers still in the air while these small "cotton ball" localized ejections work their way down the NE corner. The whole E face has peeled away at this point but that little N face perimeter piece still hovers in the air.

I think we are watching a corner attack right before our eyes.

But then again I'm a "tin foil hat" conspiracy "theorist".

Just recently found this very informative site & forum, thank you all.

Regarding the flash and damage at the WTC2 NE corner - well above the plane-impact zone - here's yet another view/perspective where there's even two separate flashes visible in that same, suddenly-damaged spot:



Taken from this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nfhuv9IInEU

So far I've been unable to re-locate the original source-footage again, but if memory serves me well I think it was (described as) a 'CNN roofcam view'.
If anyone has a link to the original footage I'd be much obliged, thanks!

earlier, tinero wrote:So far I've been unable to re-locate the original source-footage again, but if memory serves me well I think it was (described as) a 'CNN roofcam view'.
If anyone has a link to the original footage I'd be much obliged, thanks!

Found it again,
(slowed down) source for my video was:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuyzidPa4c4

Original source (not slowed down, somewhat higher resolution: 640x480) seems to be:
"CNN Dub5 08.avi"
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DZEXVBS5

additionally, see also:
http://www.911conspiracy.tv/2_WTC.html
scroll down to No. 13: CNN Roof Cam

(edited to correct info)

Is there any possibility that the flashes are reflections from windows?

Hambone wrote:Is there any possibility that the flashes are reflections from windows?

If you mean those at what has been termed here as the *knuckle*...
No. Clearly bright emission from multiple angles, followed by smoke. Significant deformation of the building corner.

What flashes do you mean ?

Could they be from reflections of window glass which popped out of the frames....

What I find not explained when people report these flashes is what are they exploding... core columns or facade column connections, spandrel connections... truss seats? If there was an large attack of the facade and we see one or two or 20 over the entire building this cannot be enough to destroy it. If they are from core columns or beam stubs or the truss support girder at the core one would expect to see scores or hundreds of these... why so few?

The same argument applies to the liquid metal pouring from near the NE corner of WTC 2... what was this... how much structure does it represent... One story height of one of those columns melted is hardly a cubic foot if that much. Why does this only show in that location of all the corners on all the floors? I don't see the connection to cutting the structure.

There is good reason to break the corner about 10 floors above the initiation zone.

The movements seen wouldn't have been possible without breakng a corner to let upper east face tuck into the lower.

There is a good reason but it's best to focus on the flash itself first.