The 9/11 Forum

Whatever the hanging objects are, the supposition is that the very high KE of the aircraft impact dislodged these.

Another possible intrepretation is that these are budles of old fashioned telephone (and possibly telegraph) cables. There were risers for such in the corners of at least WTC 1, known from the 1975(?) fire.

Major_Tom wrote:...That's why I'm confused. It doesn't at all seem obvous that there is a correlation between failing truss connections and the puffs. I see no proof whatsoever...

Is it necessarily failing trusses or could it be failure at the truss connections (i.e. bolts) ?

Another possible intrepretation is that these are budles of old fashioned telephone (and possibly telegraph) cables. There were risers for such in the corners of at least WTC 1, known from the 1975(?) fire.

Fair. But leading to where? From where? We can all agree that these would naturally be run up through core shafts to centralized junction locations. What hollow shafts near the corners could possibly be used?

I'm pretty familiar with how bundles are run and junctioned, pretty much always following a rather sensible and useful, centralized route.

Hambone asks:

Is it necessarily failing trusses or could it be failure at the truss connections (i.e. bolts) ?

That is what I would think, too. NIST catagorizes them but doesn't specify their locations. The video they use to do this is apparently "top secret". Little people like ourselves are not able to see it.

The one example Max posted earlier shows multiple "puffs" from the same corner the molten something was pouring out of.

A molten something interpreted as ....lead from storage batteries?

Multiple white tubes interpreted as...flooring?

Multiple puffs? And then, later, WTC 7 kind of "falls down".

And people like myself are considered "fringe" or "looney" for questioning such BS?

(And war plans already prepared before the event.)




These smoke puffs could be studied effectively if I had access to the video that NIST does.

Access denied.

I asked this question before:

In the video that Max posted, linked below, does anyone know why there is so much smoke coming from well below the top of WTC 7, probably from steet level, before WTC 2 collapses?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP6Mlrfb ... re=related

Major Tom,

Good eye. I've looked at this video many times, but I was always focused on WTC2's impact floors. I never noticed the "smoke" way below the impact floors.

Just some quick possibilities we can sort through:

- Smoke from back-eddies in the upper blocks' plumes;
- Smoke from fires outside of the towers, at the bases, ignited by burning falling debris;
- Smoke from fires inside the towers, below the impact floors;
- Dust from first responders driving through the debris at the bases.

Max

Just prior to the collapse of the south tower, a van was burning on the street near the base. Not saying this is definitely the source or the sole source of the smoke in this video, just that it certainly could be.

I've seen this flaming van directly in at least one video, perhaps two. I first noticed the smoke at the base of the towers years ago in the Bob and Bri video (an interesting subject unto itself, one I may explore further here someday). A video from another angle showed a flaming van in an appropriate location producing quite a lot of smoke. If I run across it again I'll put the stills up.

Major_Tom wrote:I asked this question before:

In the video that Max posted, linked below, does anyone know why there is so much smoke coming from well below the top of WTC 7, probably from steet level, before WTC 2 collapses?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP6Mlrfb ... re=related

9/11 Cars on fire at WTC base
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qraALi7Flnc
(See 00:30)

Max Photon wrote:9/11 Cars on fire at WTC base
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qraALi7Flnc
(See 00:30)

That's the video I've seen.

On August 1st Max said:

As the author of this thread, may I suggest that this is a perfect time to discuss the nature of the Cold Spot. That will help clarify our discussion about the hanging-objects-as-floors, which in turn will clarify our discussion about the smoke puffs.

6 weeks ago, Dude!

You wrote some good posts at JREF on this subject. Since those were the best posts I've seen on this subject, why don't you get the ball rolling by just copying and pasting your best observations here.

Also, please include any references you think are useful for understanding the cold spot. NIST Report sections, page numbers and that sort of thing.

Or you don't want to go in that direction now? In which direction do you think it should go? Should it just die with all this suspense over the hanging mystery objects built up?

`







( Shhhh.....it's a performance-piece..........I'm imitating the Cold Spot.....)








`

In relation to floor to perimeter connections, this thread raises some good questions about the sagging white things NIST identifies as flooring detached from the perimeter of WTC2.

Guys, I think the arguments given in this thread are already sufficient to show that these white stringy things are probably not hanging floors.


So what are they? (Please review this short thread before responding).


Is there anything like these white objects in WTC1? If no, why not?



Max wrote:

Table 9-3. Start Times for Smoke Puffs Observed on the East Face of WTC 2

9:12:48 a.m. 9:14:31 a.m. 9:14:57 a.m. 9:15:20 a.m. 9:16:06 a.m.
9:17:16 a.m. 9:18:07 a.m. 9:18:35 a.m. 9:19:05 a.m. 9:19:20 a.m.
9:19:47 a.m. 9:20:58 a.m. 9:21:12 a.m. 9:21:22 a.m. 9:21:37 a.m.
9:21:46 a.m. 9:22:34 a.m. 9:23:01 a.m. 9:23:14 a.m. 9:23:57 a.m.
9:24:10 a.m. 9:24:31 a.m. 9:25:04 a.m. 9:25:18 a.m. 9:25:43 a.m.
9:26:11 a.m. 9:26:25 a.m. 9:27:16 a.m. 9:27:33 a.m. 9:28:05 a.m.
9:28:09 a.m. 9:28:41 a.m. 9:28:55 a.m. 9:29:05 a.m. 9:29:24 a.m.
9:30:15 a.m. 9:30:46 a.m. 9:31:27 a.m. 9:31:39 a.m. 9:31:55 a.m.
9:32:26 a.m. 9:33:20 a.m. 9:33:39 a.m. 9:34:04 a.m. 9:37:05 a.m.
9:37:42 a.m. 9:38:02 a.m. 9:38:13 a.m. 9:38:29 a.m. 9:39:37 a.m.
9:40:47 a.m. 9:42:58 a.m. 9:48:36 a.m. 9:49:16 a.m. 9:49:23 a.m.
9:50:00 a.m. 9:50:37 a.m. 9:52:13 a.m. 9:52:30 a.m. 9:53:10 a.m.
9:53:46 a.m. 9:54:16 a.m. 9:54:37 a.m. 9:57:02 a.m. 9:57:19 a.m.
9:57:28 a.m.

(p. 407)

If we had the ability to match location of these puffs with the times above we may be able to guess what is causing them.

It seems NIST knows the locations if they can make such a detailed list as seen above.



Hey, maybe if I write them and ask nicely they will share the videos with us.

Maybe all they need is a few kind words and a pat on the back.

OneWhiteEye wrote:Just prior to the collapse of the south tower, a van was burning on the street near the base. Not saying this is definitely the source or the sole source of the smoke in this video, just that it certainly could be.

I've seen this flaming van directly in at least one video, perhaps two. I first noticed the smoke at the base of the towers years ago in the Bob and Bri video (an interesting subject unto itself, one I may explore further here someday). A video from another angle showed a flaming van in an appropriate location producing quite a lot of smoke. If I run across it again I'll put the stills up.

i've seen several car fires, and the smoke is always black. all the rubber and whatnot, i guess.
but the smoke from a car fire is never white. isn't it metal fires that produce white smoke?

If the NIST counted 66+ pressure pulses from the perimeters of WTC2, why have I not seen video of any of them?

They must have used video to count the pulses. Is any of this video part of the recent FOIA release?

Two posts before this one has a list of all the times these pressure pulses were seen. That seems to be an important part of WTC2 pre-collapse research we have not covered.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

From a few posts ago on this page:

Hambone wrote:

Major_Tom wrote:...That's why I'm confused. It doesn't at all seem obvous that there is a correlation between failing truss connections and the puffs. I see no proof whatsoever...

Is it necessarily failing trusses or could it be failure at the truss connections (i.e. bolts) ?

Hmmmmm. Interesting from the point of view of initiating ROOSD conditions.