The 9/11 Forum

Major_Tom wrote:These perfectly horizontal "tatooed" blackened lines appearing along the north and west faces of WTC 1 are unique to this building. Note that lines with such geometry did not appear anywhere on WTC 2.

Does the reader recall all those white tubes appearing in the windows of WTC 2 like a bunch of "wet noodles" and brushed off as "hanging floors"? These were unique to WTC 2 and sometimes 3 individual tubes would appear in windows along a single floor in that building, though not a single similar object was witnessed on WTC 1.

Just as with the WTC 2 tubes, these burn lines with their unique geometry appear only on WTC 1.


To make the time-evolutiion study of these horizontal blackened lines even easier for the reader, I've placed the photos in sequence as a "slide show" in the following links. A single click of the mouse allows time ordered viewing of the formation of these lines and their corresponding fires.


North Face horizontal scarring evolution
http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/ind ... ER_limit=9


West face horizontal scarring evolution
http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/ind ... ER_limit=9


Please note the curious relationships between fire propagation and blackened horizontal scarring. Many of the blackened marks appear with very little smoke.

It seems to me that the black marks are simply smoke or heat effects of hot air from the fires. The air leaving the building would in most cases be very hot. Would this cause oxidation of the aluminum cladding? I am pretty sure aluminum oxide is black.

Are there any black lines that do not appear directly over broken windows?

Hambone:

From the Merck Index:

"Aluminum Oxide: Al2O3. Occurs in nature as the minerals: bauxite, bayerite, boehimite, corundum, diaspore, gibbsite....... WHITE crystalline powders."

To me the black marks look a lot like SOOT!

Dr. G wrote:Hambone:

From the Merck Index:

"Aluminum Oxide: Al2O3. Occurs in nature as the minerals: bauxite, bayerite, boehimite, corundum, diaspore, gibbsite....... WHITE crystalline powders."

To me the black marks look a lot like SOOT!

Thanx Dr. G. I have a recollection of handling aluminum, such as railings and bicycle rims that have been exposed to the elements for some time, and getting black stuff on my hands. Hmmm?

Hambone wrote:

Major_Tom wrote:These perfectly horizontal "tatooed" blackened lines appearing along the north and west faces of WTC 1 are unique to this building. Note that lines with such geometry did not appear anywhere on WTC 2.

Does the reader recall all those white tubes appearing in the windows of WTC 2 like a bunch of "wet noodles" and brushed off as "hanging floors"? These were unique to WTC 2 and sometimes 3 individual tubes would appear in windows along a single floor in that building, though not a single similar object was witnessed on WTC 1.

Just as with the WTC 2 tubes, these burn lines with their unique geometry appear only on WTC 1.


To make the time-evolutiion study of these horizontal blackened lines even easier for the reader, I've placed the photos in sequence as a "slide show" in the following links. A single click of the mouse allows time ordered viewing of the formation of these lines and their corresponding fires.


North Face horizontal scarring evolution
http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/ind ... ER_limit=9


West face horizontal scarring evolution
http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/ind ... ER_limit=9


Please note the curious relationships between fire propagation and blackened horizontal scarring. Many of the blackened marks appear with very little smoke.

It seems to me that the black marks are simply smoke or heat effects of hot air from the fires. The air leaving the building would in most cases be very hot. Would this cause oxidation of the aluminum cladding? I am pretty sure aluminum oxide is black.

Dr. G already explained it, but it's interesting that you don't know that, because Dr. Jones has explained many times how Al2O3 creates a white emission of dust/smoke. Have you not seen his presentations?

At any rate, it's a fairly understandable and intuitive notion that the black marks are from fires or "soot". However, we must wonder how they were produced in such an amazingly straight line and how they mark, almost exactly where the failure point in perimeter becomes. Then you must ask why were fires intense enough in those areas, to cause uniform failure of those columns in that precise line in the perimeter.

Just simply stating that they could be soot marks, is not enough. It needs to be explored deeper.

To me the black marks look a lot like SOOT!

To me, too. Any theory based on heat weakening via accelerants would naturally have extremely high temperatures masked within fire, vaporous chemical emissions masked within smoke.

This is the genius of the technique (technically genius, morally repulsive, such is the engineering behind war).

All high temp failure can be blamed on fires. After all, look at the newly released info on NIST's take on WTC 7. Always the same, another moment taken right out of the Twilight Zone. All they have to do is exaggerate the temperatures the fires reach, the damage they cause and downplay the strength of the buildings.


I, too, realize that soot would be black. What I have shown captured my attention for reasons summerized in the following quote:

However, we must wonder how they were produced in such an amazingly straight line and how they mark, almost exactly where the failure point in perimeter becomes. Then you must ask why were fires intense enough in those areas, to cause uniform failure of those columns in that precise line in the perimeter.

Namely:

1) The west perimeter failed (certainly appears to "sever") exactly along the 97th floor "soot line" simultaneously (to the naked eye) along the entire west perimeter. As I pointed out before, the initial smoke ejections were incredibly uniform along the entire west 97th floor "soot line", showing no evidence of the southern portion ejecting smoke and dust before the northern corner.

That's some destructive soot, no?

2) The NW and NE corners also fail at the 97th floor, along the same line as the "soot line", also simultaneously to the naked eye.

I couldn't find any delay between the NE and NW corner initial movement using frame by frame analysis.

The simultaneous failure of the entire west facade along a straight horizontal line and the simultaneous failure of the north face (simultaneous to the naked eye based on initial movement and linear and uniform smoke ejections) with both the NE and NW corners failing along the exact same horizontal plane at the exact same time is brushed over or not explained at all.

And all these along perfectly horizontal "soot lines" so geometrially uniform they could be seen half way across Manhattan.


I don't know...just asking questions. Can perfectly horizontal soot lines explain perfectly horizontal perimeter failure lines?


Onward with the infinitely rigged game.

Concerning the N and W perimeter failure lines, please look carefully at this photo. Please look at the initial visible ejections from these sides.




We've already noted that the NE and NW corners, though separated by 207 feet, gave at the same floor (97) at the same time. Frame-by-frame video analysis shows the downward movement on both corners starts in the same frame and you cannot distinguish which corner moves first.

The initial ejections in this photo show us the evenness and the simultaneity (to the naked eye) of the initial perimeter failure across the entire north and west faces.

This perfectly horizontal plane along which every perimeter column on the N and W faces fails at the same time is none other than the 97th floor "soot line". The only perimeter columns severed elsewhere are those initially severed by the aircraft impact.

Focusing on the west face (on the right), we are told that the perimeter first failed on the south end and propagated from south to north. David B wrote on page 1:

If you take the video shot from the west and stop frame it, you might be able to detect the instability racing from south to north in less than 3/4 of a second.

The evenness of the ejections seen along the west face reveal a split-second simultaneity of the failure of all columns along the entire side. No propagating instability can be observed. And we can see the same on the north face, along the exact same perfectly horizontal plane.


Perhaps the perfectly horizontal blackened lines along floor 97, coincidentally exactly where we see half the building perimeter simultaneously fail, were caused by something more destructive than soot?

Is there any documentation of what was on the 97th floor?

David,

I think those documents were on the 97th floor.

Max

Max Photon wrote:David,

I think those documents were on the 97th floor.

Max

I am asking for information about what the contents of floor 97 were.

David B. Benson wrote:

Max Photon wrote:David,

I think those documents were on the 97th floor.

Max

I am asking for information about what the contents of floor 97 were.

Despite the hilarity* of Max's response, the most detailed inventory of the floor's contents would be located on that floor. Unless a company has risk mitigation which includes inventory records storage off-site, where else would there be records of contents? The insurance companies? It's true, simply knowing what offices were located there might help; what are you shooting for, Dr. Benson?

*hilarity is not an apt description, but it was pretty funny

Well, in WTC 2 it seems there was a UPS on affected floor(s). Was floor 97 just offices with desks? Were there lots of computers? If so, a source of all sorts of chemicals which might have reacted with the exterior wall steel.

Something even wierder?

David B. Benson wrote:Well, in WTC 2 it seems there was a UPS on affected floor(s). Was floor 97 just offices with desks? Were there lots of computers? If so, a source of all sorts of chemicals which might have reacted with the exterior wall steel.

Something even wierder?

OK. A few questions, if you have the answers. Is it known for a fact that the UPS bank existed? Is it only surmised with high confidence? Or assumed with scant evidence? Is there any existing suspicion that the presence of the UPS materials was detrimental to the survival of WTC2?

A chemical attack seems reasonable to me but, since I can't formulate such a hypothesis, someone would have to outline it. Suppose the observations given here so far are essentially correct: the soot line marks the location of near simultaneous perimeter failure, not through buckling or deformation. Seems an important phenomena to address. Is it necessary to resort to chemical attack as an explanation? If it is, is there a suitable mechanism which can account for the observations?

Major Tom,

With respect to WTC1's 97th floor soot line, I have some observations from WTC2 that might be helpful.

Something I found astounding while studying the exterior fire behavior of WTC2 is that by no means did all the visible fires create soot on the exterior cladding. In fact, most didn't! It appears, best I can tell, that most of the soot marks on WTC2 were formed during the first few seconds after impact, as the fire ball rose up the tower. Subsequent fires did not really leave soot marks (or not nearly as pronouced). For example, the robust WTC2 NE corner fire left little soot, even though it burned for the entire time, and visibly melted the aluminum cladding. Yet there are dark soot marks nearby that were formed in the first few seconds.

This video captures the soot formation on WTC2's east and north faces:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VNbgSzr3cA

This video captures soot formation on WTC2's east face, SE corner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STlYq6UiaUQ

Give the above observations, I think it would be wise for you to at least consider that the soot marks along WTC1's 97th floor were also formed in the first few seconds after impact, from incompletely-combusted jet fuel.

Max

Max points out:

Give the above observations, I think it would be wise for you to at least consider that the soot marks along WTC1's 97th floor were also formed in the first few seconds after impact, from incompletely-combusted jet fuel.

I agree. This is why I gave the NIST time-stamped, properly time-sequenced photos grouped according to the 4 faces of WTC 1 so that everyone can see for themselves what the time-evolution of both the fires and the soot lines actually were.

Reposted:

West face fire, smoke and soot evolution:

Index form:
http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911_old ... wtc1_west/
Album form
http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/ind ... on=111:106

North face:

Index form
http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911_old ... tc1_north/
Album form
http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/ind ... on=108:106

East face:

Index form
http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911_old ... wtc1_east/
Album form
http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/ind ... on=109:106


South face:

Index form
http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911_old ... tc1_south/
Album form
http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/ind ... on=110:106

And a large collection of general photos of the WTC 1 fires

http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/ind ... on=140:140


If the N and W horizontal soot lines were made in the first few moments, the photo sequences would quickly reveal this.

Instead, the reader can verify for themselves that these lines formed slowly over time with some interesting accompanying fires and often with very little smoke.


Max, using his special gift of observing with his own eyes, notes:

Something I found astounding while studying the exterior fire behavior of WTC2 is that by no means did all the visible fires create soot on the exterior cladding. In fact, most didn't!

Exactly. Same with WTC 1. Very complicated relation between observed fires, generated smoke and "soot" formation.

The sequenced photos are worth more than thousands of words.

Max, I've been trying to put the index list of photos in the form of linkable thumbnails like you asked. Not much luck so far but it will be done soon enough.

OneWhiteEye wrote:OK. A few questions, if you have the answers. Is it known for a fact that the UPS bank existed? Is it only surmised with high confidence? Or assumed with scant evidence?

Somebody posted that they saw it, claiming it occupied 'an entire floor' of Fuji Bank. I, and NIST, doubt that extent, but it does seem that LERA was contacted about strengthing the floor to hold the extra weight.

Is there any existing suspicion that the presence of the UPS materials was detrimental to the survival of WTC2?

If the batteries were broken, I am sure the acid did no good.

A chemical attack seems reasonable to me but, since I can't formulate such a hypothesis, someone would have to outline it. Suppose the observations given here so far are essentially correct: the soot line marks the location of near simultaneous perimeter failure, not through buckling or deformation. Seems an important phenomena to address. Is it necessary to resort to chemical attack as an explanation? If it is, is there a suitable mechanism which can account for the observations?

Most of the exterior walls failed at the connections. Given the three story design of the exterior wall panels, simultaneous failure along a horizontal line implies that all the steel there was seriously affected. I'm having trouble with this (for the west wall) being only due to fires.

(The soot lines just indicate that (almost) all the windows were broken. Probably the presence of absece of such is, in off itself, of major import.)