The 9/11 Forum

A link from a link from a link on Major_Tom's site.

I just redid the whole video link pages. Too many missing links after not keeping up.

I have a page called "internet video" where I link to some decent youtube account holders.

One example, "xenomorph911" had over 200 videos when youtube suspended his account. He changed his name to "xenomorph911wtc" and reissued his clips as "compilations".

He realizes he may be kicked out again and gives links to download the video independent of youtube.


On his main youtube page you can get the links.

There are other people like him. They know they could be shut down at any time so some of them probably have or want to have a way others can download their original video. I link to a group of them below. Maybe they can help us.

Or one of the other links?

http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=74&MMN_position=192:192



North Tower, all links work, updated

http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=56&MMN_position=142:142


South Tower

http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=57&MMN_position=143:143


WTC 7

http://www.sharpprintinginc.com/911/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=58&MMN_position=144:144

Thanks for all the links, Major_Tom.

One example, "xenomorph911" had over 200 videos when youtube suspended his account. He changed his name to "xenomorph911wtc" and reissued his clips as "compilations".

He realizes he may be kicked out again and gives links to download the video independent of youtube.

They've already axed him again, do you believe it? I clicked on the link and it says 'invalid user name'. I wanted to get his downloadable package - in the hopes that I can avoid the wastage of quality when videos go into flv format - no dice.

I very much agree with the sentiments I've seen expressed occasionally about the enforcement of copyright when it comes to these videos of high historical value: to hell with copyright. It's beginning to piss me off that official agencies like NIST can throw their weight around to get original copies from untold hundreds of sources of all types (broadcast, security, private) and sit on the archive while people like me have to deal with edited/compressed/resampled/downsized/etc crap from YouTube. Realizing that sounds like a lame complaint from someone who has no claim to even a single frame of original footage, I can only add that the techniques I'm applying on this crap versus the situation of NIST is like Itzhak Perlman being forced to play a decrepit fiddle while an A.D.D. toddler plays whack-a-mole with a Stradivarius.

PS - as distasteful as it is, I'm now educating myself on an aspect of video I could otherwise care less about, frame rates, sampling, and compression. Wow. Very impressive on one level, very sad on another. Ironically, while North American TV is on the verge of a (mandated!) technological leap allowing viewers the opportunity to count the pimples on the face of their favorite soap star, far more research and effort seems to have gone into technologies to make the production, storage and transmission of video data as low a quality as possible. Instead of producing mind-boggling resolution and dynamic range, we're trying to make cellphone videos of sufficient quality to be able to distinguish from pure noise.

The same thing has already happened with audio. No, I'm not a fan of vinyl. And, no, my ears are no longer good enough to hear quantization error in 16-bit digital audio. But they used to be. Now MP3 and MP4 have taken sound quality to new lows, such that once again I can hear the distortions. Thanks, you ******* engineering weenies, who get your meager paychecks from the executives, marketers, and lawyers: you're just streetwalkers in the whoredom of modern corporatized science. Enjoy your foreclosure.

Major_Tom, that's quite a compilation of everything you've got at your site.

Incidentally, I was only kidding about the foreclosure, don't wish hard times on anyone, especially people just doing what The Man tells them to do so they DON'T end up sleeping curbside in their car, one step ahead of the repo man. Or in massively expanding private prisons, where headcount=profit. Engineers are OK. Really they are.

Xenomorph 911 wtc is still there. His direct link is not working, unlike everyone else on the list.

Go to the same link. In a youtube search put: xenomorph 911 wtc

You will see a few of his clips. Click on his name and it will take you to his main page.

He has edited well for at least the last year. He has consistently had some of the best research clips.


Notice in his introduction that he is open to helping fellow researchers.

He has to have some good quality stuff. As an editor he has a talent for repetition, zoom and slow-motion.

Check out the WTC7 compilation on the first page.

It's beginning to piss me off that official agencies like NIST can throw their weight around to get original copies from untold hundreds of sources of all types (broadcast, security, private) and sit on the archive while people like me have to deal with edited/compressed/resampled/downsized/etc crap from YouTube.

Rigged. In the WTC7 compilation, you can see the building go down from quite a few perspectives.

It is surreal that we are still having this "debate". Do you think anyone alive can step up in the future and rationally explain the fall of WTC7 as a natural event?


(no freakin' way). The debate is inherently unfair in that it is dishonest about WTC7.

It is painfully obvious that the debate around WTC7 is dishonest.

Excellent, thank you, I see he is still there - for now. Hopefully, I'll be able to find and download some quality clips before they disappear.

Major_Tom wrote:It is surreal that we are still having this "debate". Do you think anyone alive can step up in the future and rationally explain the fall of WTC7 as a natural event?


(no freakin' way). The debate is inherently unfair in that is dishonest about WTC7.

It is so painfully obvious that the debate around WTC7 is dishonest.

I can only speak for myself. I do not understand the mechanics of WTC7's initiation. I don't believe NIST's physics simulation is accurate; I trust I won't have to defend that statement, at least in this thread. It can be defended, but it's not an easy thing.

Honestly, I can't put all the pieces together in a way that equals CD, either. For the record, it's not a matter of blind faith in the US government or its myriad appendages. To me, it's simply unexplained at this time, and I foresee little chance that it ever will be explained in a manner satisfying to me.

I totally understand where you're coming from. It doesn't help that the establishment does feel it has been adequately explained; there will not be any more multimillion dollar efforts with unfettered access to material evidence, that's already been pissed away.

Assume data becomes available in the form of:

- Frame
- pixel_horizontal
- pixel_vertical

where the points describe one or more edges of the building. No point will be associated with a specific location on the building but merely indicates that an edge is present at the indicated image coordinates. Some points will be missing, if one were to expect a uniform, grid-like coverage. The points would not necessarily be ordered in a meaningful way, though most likely it would be a natural traversal order like bottom-left through bottom-right by way of the roofline. Some points may have integer value by definition; doesn't mean the resolution is correspondingly limited. Of course, the locations are angular measurements, not displacement.

Can anyone else make use of this? Dr. G? This is about as raw as it will come anymore.

Larger: http://i44.tinypic.com/2i6ni51.png

OneWhiteEye wrote:Renderings may help with geometric considerations

Then again....

peterene1 wrote:Last year forced David Chandler forced NIST to admit that there was a 2,25-2,28s long period of freefall during the collapse of WTC7.

Why bother?

Good question. GREAT question. Why expend a year and a half of part time effort to do what can be done better in a pair of five-minute sessions of manually placing points every five frames?

To my credit, everything I've learned is applicable to other problem domains and will only help my earnings potential in future work, as well as aid in information extraction and visualizations in other domains of more general interest. See you in some earthquake threads!

Does anyone here know Renderman Shader Language? I'm sure I could figure this out on my own but if someone has a ready answer that would be better. Here's the problem: I want to draw all edges in a different color than the surfaces. Now, this is not the same as a cartoon shader, which applies a color to the silhouette edges, I need the edges formed by surface intersection to be outlines, as well as the silhouette. It would be like wireframe display but with opaque surfaces, backface culling, etc.

I do have a very cool program called Freestyle that can do this, but it tends to choke on too many polygons, cannot handle a WTC complex model. Example:



The source code is available, but fixing the bugs is likely a bigger job than writing a shader to do the trick. What confuses me is that surface normals are undefined for edges, obviously, so what parameter does one look at?

Oh, I should mention that just having an OpenGL display with mixed wireframe/solid will not do the trick, I need to be able to generate this in a renderer with all the regular bells and whistles. And I don't want to spend a dime.

SketchUp seems to be outline-friendly. There are some difficulties moving models in and out with the free version, but it seems to be COLLADA-based under the hood, which could be a good thing. Maybe it's just my system, but it's also a buggy resource hog - not that I'm complaining. Not when it gives views like this:


Larger: http://i41.tinypic.com/rtni2x.png

I can't take credit for any of this work, the models are made by other people, I just pulled them together into one scene. There are more buildings to add and some corrections: the World Financial Center group is not placed properly, so is not shown here. All I wanted was outlines but ended up with a many of the nearby buildings and all the textures! Strangely enough, though, I haven't figured out how to get it to render in outline only - seems to be an object property rather than a global property.

"If I stand tall, it is because I stand on the shoulders of many faceless people who've posted their work on the internet."

Here is the first frame from the NIST/CBS clip:



Here is a hastily acquired view from Sketchup:



Not quite right, need to be a little farther down the road. It's fun to try to determine the camera location in this manner, even when NIST has apparently given it (Dr. G mentioned it, I believe, but I'm purposely not looking right now). Not all locations are given and, just because they are, doesn't mean they're correct, so it's a useful to be able to confirm through an independent method that things look right.

Sketchup has a nice feature to produce sun angle for a given location and time. Other modelers have this, too, but it's very helpful.

I'd guess, from StreetView, that the location is around here (this marker is in the northbound lane facing north, so drag it over to the southbound lane and turn around).


Larger: http://i43.tinypic.com/2yl60eu.png

Of course, it's not the same exact view, but it is contrained to where the camera car drives on the road, the renderings will not be.

People are wonderful but they're rarely meticulous: the penthouse arrangement is incorrect in the model, as seen against the video frame, and the big dark rectangle is missing.

Another good thing about Sketchup is that it embeds Ruby as a scripting language. I'm not sure what the limitations are, particularly concerning the use of other libraries, but it's got to be a good thing to help with export.

Sketchup can export GoogleEarth KMZ files which are just zipped COLLADA files, but the model must be exploded (how apropos) before export, according to the reference I found, in order for another program, FBX, to convert it to 3DS . Blender, another free modeler, supposedly reads Sketchup files and has a Python script to export 3DS. Now I have a reason to get Blender, though I doubt I could learn how to use it in a thousand lifetimes.

One might ask why I don't shell out $25K USD for all the right software.

The actual location is further north on West, north of N. Moore St.

Over a half million polygons rendered translucently, with 16x antialiasing - at 30 frames per second:



I think I found my renderer. Now I have to write an application to host it, but that's a good thing. PhysX physics engine, Gelato renderer (better but slower), Cg, CUDA, and now NVSGSDK - all NVidia products, all exceptional and free, easy to tie together.

Sketchup is still cool for what it does, but it is awfully slow. And terribly buggy. I tried to load the above model into it and, after two hours of waiting for it to open, I just killed the program. By contrast, once I saved the model in native NBF format, the test viewer with the SDK loads it in the blink of an eye. Then renders full screen 1680x1050 at 30+ frames per second!

Should anyone be interested in the model, it is available here: http://www.the3dstudio.com/product_details.aspx?id_product=45751

I've nothing but praise for the creator, this is incredibly detailed and seemingly quite accurate. I had been working on my own model, CSG based, not polygon. This blows that away. But, I'd not been able to do much with it because it's so big. That problem is solved.