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Not a Conventional CD

Analysis of fire and collapse theories and examination of related evidence.

Not a Conventional CD

Postby Major_Tom on Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:37 pm

In another thread Dr G wrote:

My main problem with a CD hypothesis for WTC 7 is that I fail to see how a CD could have been carried out without it being obvious from at least some of the many views of the collapse. For me WTC 7 fell too fast and too symmetrically even for a conventional CD! By "conventional CD" I mean one using high-explosive cutter charges on selected columns. In all the CD's I have seen (on YouTube for example), you can hear and often see the timed sequence of explosions - BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG - moving around the building. We didn't see or hear this for WTC 7 on 9/11.



OWE followed with:

This is probably as good a time as any to mention something that's been on my mind for several years. What if the official story was that WTC7 was brought down intentionally for safety reasons? This is not a new idea, but it's never been treated with exactly the slant I'd like to give it.

Had that been the story from the very beginning, would we have seen 'debunkers' denying it? Because, as they've said many times:

- it didn't look like a CD
- it didn't sound like a CD
- the building was unstable, on fire, and unsafe to enter
- there wasn't time to prep

Of course, this is hardly an indictment of people holding these opinions because (at least for now) these are perfectly consistent with the official story, there's no reason to have to come into accord with my hypothetical. Neither will anyone have to defend their position against a hypothetical future release of such information, unless it happens! Still, I find it interesting to speculate.

Such a scenario parallels the issue of whether flight 93 was shot down. On 9/11, I surmised that it was and attributed nothing nefarious to it. Frankly, I thought it was about time the multi-trillion MIC got off their collective workfare asses. Ok, so the official story is a really feel-good tale of heroism instead. The PTB were poised to shoot it down, but the guileless (and unlitigatable) heroism preempted that effort. OK.

(I mean no disrespect to passengers and their families in what I just said. No matter what happened, nothing diminishes the tragedy. Were there relatives of mine on the plane, I would hardly be anxious for it to be shot down and neither would I be consoled by any 'greater good' explanations. To be sure, after much reflection over the years, I realize I don't support a shootdown decision, and I believe that I'm wrong to hold that opinion! Imagine having only minutes to decide.)

Back to WTC7. What other parallels are there? Why, the cause of the demise itself. For years, we've heard about:

- groaning and creaking
- a growing bulge
- leaning
- massive debris damage
- combustion of large amounts of stored fuel

Only this time, the official story is... groaning and creaking maybe, but none of the others. Now, one positive remark I can make about NIST's report on 7 - I've never seen a better muzzle! What else could so effectively get self-assured blowhards to shut the hell up? Have you noticed the direct temporal correlation between the release of the report and the diminished posting frequency of certain individuals?

What of the claims above that appear to negate an intentionally induced collapse?

It didn't look like a CD

What does a CD look like? I've now viewed scores of demolition videos representing a variety of structures and methods (including an obvious fake that fooled me for a minute or two). There are patterns, of course, but there's no one particular way they look. WTC7 seems too abrupt and too fast, but so far that's just an impression. On the other hand, there's enough similarity that to deny it would be irrational or ignorant.

It didn't sound like a CD

I've seen two CDs now that were quiet at initiation. They were much smaller structures than 7, but it negates the claim that there must necessarily be ear-splitting bangs. One 9lb charge produces 130-140 db at a kilometer? Seriously??? I guess the crowds who gather within 1km of the Vegas demolitions, utilizing at least hundreds of charges, must go home with their ears bleeding. And I thought the hazard was dust! Can you imagine the people just across the street from the Landmark? They're deaf now! The insurance must be outrageous!

Nevertheless, after my fallacious display of incredulity, I can only offer that I've no opinion on the subject of WTC7 and sound. None of the videos I've seen of the collapse have any sound....

The building was unstable, on fire, and unsafe to enter
and
There wasn't time to prep

Firemen enter burning buildings all the time. It violates common sense, but it's a fact. I expect there are other professions willing to do the same. But that assumes anyone needs to.

I remember reading a magazine article in the late 90s (I think) in which it was claimed the mega-skyscraper in Malaysia(?) was being built with demolition charges in place. I'm neither lying nor mistaken about this claim, although it's certainly possible the author of the article was incorrect. This is not something you forget or misunderstand. I was struck with the imprudence of this on more than one level. Doing it, first of all, then publicizing it! What if a fire set these off? What if bad people commandeer them for nefarious purposes? I've since searched the internet for some corroboration of this claim, with no success.

If it were considered expedient to bring down the building, are we so sure that could not be accomplished? If you had the power, and made such a decision, wouldn't you want it kept on the down low? How many people kept the munitions in the Lusitania secret, for how many years?

All this to say, proving intentional destruction would prove authorities lie and cover-up decisions, good or bad. And slap yet another muzzle on windbags.



Many key points that deserve their own thread. I have to digest these comments before I can respond.

One note on the claim that WTC 7 was CDed for safety reasons:

Then why did they use "stealth devices"? As Dr G pointed out, we heard no large "pops".

If it was CDed, someone was trying to disguise the CD when choosing and planting the devices.
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Re: Not a Conventional CD

Postby OneWhiteEye on Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:51 am

Major_Tom wrote:One note on the claim that WTC 7 was CDed for safety reasons:

Then why did they use "stealth devices"? As Dr G pointed out, we heard no large "pops".

Good point, yes. Not much I can say to that. It will be quite the headscratcher when they announce they took it down for safety reasons.

Haha, just pulling your leg. I'd only put that at about a 15% chance, hardly worth mentioning.

Since I made that post I've now run across a video with sound, kind of. It's worth a watch in any case, you get a look at the fires and overall condition of 7 at the time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0CU-teE0bQ&eurl=

I've only ran it a couple of times, but I didn't hear all that much at the collapse. Reminds me of the Sauret video of the North Tower, not much noise at that distance. Just enough to let you know the sound is there, being picked up. You'd think that would be louder than hell, all over town. Guess not. Maybe the densely packed skyscrapers have something to do with it, maybe the camera mics are not that sensitive. I'd think that the collapse of the North Tower would be deafening, and it certainly was described as loud, but this doesn't seem to translate to handheld camera audio well. Sauret's was likely more high-end, given his profession of film maker.
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Re: Not a Conventional CD

Postby newton on Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:39 am

microphones have something known as proximity effect. the closer a sound source is to the mic diaphragm, the more prominent the bass.
they also have unique pick up patterns, and frequency repsonse, and dynamic characteristics.
in short, video camera mikes try and pickup the sounds from every direction, thus reducing the energy of the sound originating from what the camera 'sees'. if someone wnated to record the sounds of a distant object, they would need a parabolic reflector type mike, or at least a shotgun mike. these types of mikes have a very narrow field of 'hearing', and basicall pick up mostly what they are pointed at, while ignoring off axis sounds.

in shorter, mics aren't ears.
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Re: Not a Conventional CD

Postby peterene1 on Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:42 pm

I can second to that opinion,as a amateur pyro-enthusiastic I know that's very hard to catch the sharp sound of explosion

even with good microphones/cameras

especially,when there's backround noise or even worser,wind
Fight the dark forces of moron!
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Re: Not a Conventional CD

Postby Heiwa on Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:51 am

My flat overviews a whole foreign country where they fire off pyro-works regularly, e.g. yesterday night (St. Devote night). A 30 minutes show! In the past the pyro-works were supposed to produce big bangs while producing balls of glowing things and I could note the ball of glowing things 2 seconds prior the big bang hit me (as I am 700 meters away from the show).
Nowadays they fire off pyro-works to music and there are no more big bangs. All computer controlled.
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Re: Not a Conventional CD

Postby Major_Tom on Thu Feb 05, 2009 11:31 pm

Dr G wrote:

For me WTC 7 fell too fast and too symmetrically even for a conventional CD!


It is the symmetry that suggests intentional planning. I argue that CD occurred on 9-11 primarily because of the symmetry and order seen in the fall of WTC7.


Too fast? Doesn't this mean that the upper part had even less structural integrity (less resistance to being destroyed) than we see in intentional CDs?

The upper structure of WTC7 seems to provide less resistance than buildings we know are being intentionally demolished by charges.
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