The 9/11 Forum

CBS fireball seen from street level

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38kEFdUPQyI

ABC Witness saw fireball and was blown across street

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SURwW10bWwo

This board deals with evidence..right..but these are two indenpendet witnesses and one of them received severe burns.

Could be the street level fireball comparable to the infamous 13th floor jet flame from WTC7 just before the collapse?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IAcuITqh6E

What are the possible sources for the fireball?

1) Falling burning material from the upper floors

2) Igniting of volatile (and flamable) materials at the lobby level

3) Massive pyrolant (thermite) attack on the interior core structure (one would need to ignite 750 kg+ of thermite per core column, remember that the columns were box columns with ~10cm thick walls)


Bonus question: Could a massive lobby-level attack on the 700 and 800 row columns explain the observed WTC2 collapse initation feautures?

Axis - 89th floor, core row 500

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdtmQXQJcMw

First visible sign of collapse?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y2vgETA8gs

There are more witnesses of that fireball or at least extreme heat at ground level.
Task Force interview EMT PATRICIA ONDROVIC

http://www.911reality.com/9110048.pdf

Will Jimeno: "As we turned into a connecting corridor leading to Tower One, we suddenly heard a terrible rumbling noise. I looked out onto the street and saw a fireball the size of my house hit the pavement."

"... Walking south, they tried to leave the tower at Liberty Street, but another guard redirected them to the northeast exit that led to Church Street. They made their way back through the concourse.
... As Mr. DiFrancesco and Mr. Kren passed an adjoining hallway near the Church Street exit, they heard an ungodly roar. Mr. DiFrancesco turned to his right in the direction of Liberty Street, to see a massive fireball -- compressed as the South Tower fell -- rolling toward them.
"Run!" he yelled. The two men bolted for the exit. Mr. DiFrancesco was bowled over by the explosion as he reached some stairs."

And I remember a photographer told the story of hot wind and being flown for several meters.

Any more information about the fireball? Should I understan that it aligns with the hallway through the core? Any possible sources? Do hot ashes create humognous fireballs? Doubt it, because the hot ashes would reach the ground along with the other dust, so the fireball wouldn't have been visible for long or it wouldn't even exist (gypsum dust..anyone?). And burning desk wouldn't cause a fireball.

Any flamable liquids? What would be the source? Some lubrikant for the machines? No, oils can not create fireballs under those conditions.

Point taken. What do you think?

Liberty Street caved in prior to the collapse. This is where the slurry wall was most dangerously unsupported afterward. (http://www.lohud.com/article/99999999/SPECIAL01/609060304/WTC%20slurry%20wall%20a%20symbol%20of%20survival) This is where the FDNY Ladder 4 truck was found 50 feet below ground in December. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr6c1TSuxPs





NYPD officer Sam Esposito told reporters, "I looked out the window 'cause the windows exploded. And the street below caved in. The whole street caved in. You can see below the street. And at that point there was like fireballs coming up...."
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-JM_Nm-mIs

Another interesting detail in Esposito's story:

When the explosion happened I thought I was on the second floor. But the fire department, when they found me, they said I was on the fifth floor. ... It felt like an earthquake. It felt like the ground from under you was just going to break open and the whole building was just going to cave in. And what ended up happening was the outer part -- the outer part of the inside of the building stayed intact and the center floors just caved down. They just went right through. And all you do is just see a hole right through the center of the building and the outside perimeter of the inside was just there. And that was all that was left. ...

[edit to fix image tag to imga instead of img, so it wouldn't be cropped]

WTC 2 did not have a 2nd nor a 5th floor.

The Lobby was 6 stories tall, then there were a couple of mechanical floors.

Maybe Esposito also suffered from a head injury.

Maybe he was imagining things or someone told him what to say. Obviously is makes no sense.

BUSANA MUTATANA, WTC BURN VICTIM: . . .so I fell down after 10 feet off of the building on the west side. Yeah, and just lie down there, just few seconds, I feel like a heat swept through my back and my skirt. I feel like very, very, hot, you know, heat swept through like that. I kind of turned my face to the side, and I see the kind of sand storm and the ball of fire coming out from the building, like huge.

KING: Came out from the main floor of the building?

MUTATANA: Yeah, came out from there, the west gate of the building, and with that I saw girls and many others who usually smoke in the morning before they go in to work, blew away with that fire on their back and their hair. Everybody was just go, like, screaming. ////

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6hdhENfMDE
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0110/06/lklw.00.html

SanderO wrote:WTC 2 did not have a 2nd nor a 5th floor.

The Lobby was 6 stories tall, then there were a couple of mechanical floors.

Not entirely correct.
The second floor was the mezzanine level of the tower lobby.

WTC1 lobby, 2nd floor, looking west:


In case of the floors 3 through 6, you're right. The towers hadn't them outside the core.

What's the point? Yes there was a cantilevered (from the tree columns) mezzanine around the perimeter with escalators connecting the plaza level with the mezz and the "ceiling" was six stories high... outside the core which was packed with elevators and bldg services.

SanderO wrote:What's the point? Yes there was a cantilevered (from the tree columns) mezzanine around the perimeter with escalators connecting the plaza level with the mezz and the "ceiling" was six stories high... outside the core which was packed with elevators and bldg services.

I wanted to hint the possibility that Esposito stood probably on the mezzanine level when he saw the partial cave-in of the Liberty Street and subsequent fireballs in front of southern entrance to the south tower lobby.
Either, the firemen told him a wrong floor number or even Esposito have witnessed the event on a higher floor as he later reported.
His report does not clarify where he was at that time in the South Tower or generally.

Or was he located in a completely different building? Maybe WTC4, on the 2nd or 5th floor?

What did he described here?

Matt wrote:

When the explosion happened I thought I was on the second floor. But the fire department, when they found me, they said I was on the fifth floor. ... It felt like an earthquake. It felt like the ground from under you was just going to break open and the whole building was just going to cave in. And what ended up happening was the outer part -- the outer part of the inside of the building stayed intact and the center floors just caved down. They just went right through. And all you do is just see a hole right through the center of the building and the outside perimeter of the inside was just there. And that was all that was left. ...

The street collapse? The destruction moment of WTC2 and the core remnant?
How did he survived the debris rain?

Without these key informations, unfortunately, his statement sounds a bit confusing and illogical.

Esposito on 9/15 clarified his story, somewhat. It seems both towers had already come down when he was impacted by the explosion... of a car, probably.