The 9/11 Forum

There is no collusion between governments and industry and, if there is, it's for the good of all good people.

If there are unholy alliances between governments and businesses, it must be for the good of all good people.

Two links under an endless mantra to achieve truth through repetition. They could just as easily be two hundred, or two thousand, were it not for the work of posting them.

An interesting sociological experiment (where's Amy when you need her?):

Search JREF for positions on the existence and location of Iraqi WMDs starting from the time of their first mention in the drum-up leading to war, on to the present. Peripherally, track all ridicule directed at anyone suggesting that WMDs will not be found. I haven't surveyed this, but I have a pretty good idea of the results sight unseen.

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I'll bet the biggest suckers for subliminal ads at movie theaters (before they were "banned"), were scientists, engineers and academics. Gee, I'm thirsty, I need a _____ (censored to prevent litigation for impugning a brand publicly, even though it's satire in casual conversation).

Although... I did once convince a CEO within 20 minutes on a cold call to leave his office, go to the bank, and wire me $7500. To his credit, he got cold feet and demanded his money back the following day. Had he not done that, and held his options to expiration, he would've cashed out $55,000 about six weeks later. The brokerage firm, of course, would not have allowed that to happen. He would've been churned through at least three or four lesser transactions in that time and I wouldn't be relating this tale; I would've bought a car that month.

As it was, we legally kept the 40% commission, and he lost nearly half his money. There is a sociological tier of smart idiot in the business community, too.

The thread I'm linking to is extremely harsh... it features Ron Wieck ... well, enough said.

But you'll find this exchange interesting. Notice how I chose not to debate him on it. Why should I?

http://www.911oz.com/vbulletin/showthre ... #post48397

When he says he's "goading imbeciles", he wasn't addressing me, he was addressing "vert", but his remarks are a fascinating insight in the psychopathology of the demography you just spoke of.

Even though "Pomeroo" was banned, right? Nevertheless, this guy is a poster child for your experiment.

To peruse that entire forum though, to get a decent data set... seems almost undoable, and must done by hand... too many language/context-sensitive peculiarities.

OWE:

Only an idiot would think powerful sociopaths would not avail themselves of the opportunity. The reason I have a dim view of the near future is not because of the deleterious influences of truthers or the sods falling for scams of Sylvia Brown; it's because there really are evil, intelligent people in places of power with armies of unwitting smart idiots paving the way for their conquest.

My bold.


Some unwitting smart idiots have a mutually beneficial relationship with power. Weapons scientists are clear example. I associate smart idiots mainly as a product of "1st world" universities and people who often benefit from their relationship with society with white collar professional salaries.



Parasitic relationship with the host.

I agree and this reality is written through thousands of years of recorded history. You would have to have fallen out of a turnip truck to not know this by 2011AD.

Could this not have been all figured out by, say, 1000BC? This is now 2011AD and you'd have to be an idiot to have a decent education and not know this.

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Evil intelligent may be a second type of person we can talk about in this thread. i know this is associated with a level of cunning, but I am very hesitant to think of "evil intelligence" as truly intelligent.

Within the highest expression of greed must lie a fathomless emptiness. After all, is it something you would envy? Would you like to be trapped in those habits and mindset, even if you were to gain extreme wealth and all it can buy as a result? Is it worth the sale of ones harmony between self and other?

Seeing "other" as your personal bitch? Sounds a lil' schizophrenic to me. Thanks, but no thanks.

If not, then "evil intelligence" isn't very smart.

Consider the principle of know thyself to evil intelligence.

Can evil intelligence look at itself honestly and impartially. Can it look in a clean mirror and understand what it sees?

I wouldn't want to be anywhere near when that psychological mess starts to unravel, when that iceberg starts to thaw. Or is one then destined to shut the eyes and not reflect upon anything.....real? As long as that wall is built strong in the mind one can live hypocritically?

If one cannot truly "know thyself" without a psychological avalanche of illusion and horror crumbling all around, then one is clearly not very smart at all. Evil intelligence must be either conscious of its own evil or live in a state of denial and hypocrisy.


I'd rather have some good wine, a decent loaf of bread and a pretty girl. No human flesh for me, thanks.

SnowCrash wrote:The thread I'm linking to is extremely harsh... it features Ron Wieck ... well, enough said.

I'd forgotten how oppressive his presence could be.

But you'll find this exchange interesting. Notice how I chose not to debate him on it. Why should I?

http://www.911oz.com/vbulletin/showthre ... #post48397

When he says he's "goading imbeciles", he wasn't addressing me, he was addressing "vert", but his remarks are a fascinating insight in the psychopathology of the demography you just spoke of.

Yes, exactly. With an extra measure of cretinism thrown in. Just don't accuse him of... well, that was funny, if you were there, but I'm pretty sure that's what got the Debate Both Sides forum shut down.

Major_Tom wrote:No human flesh for me, thanks.

Oops, I used up my zombie link on the last post. How about this one?

This man is not a smart idiot.

Because of his stature, Strauss-Kahn has been assigned to a section of the Rikers Island jail that normally houses prisoners with highly contagious diseases, like measles or tuberculosis. Corrections spokesman Stephen Morello said Strauss-Kahn has been placed in a wing with about 14 cells, all of them empty except for his.

The cell has a toilet and a sink. He takes his meals there, with breakfast at 5 a.m., lunch at 11 a.m. and dinner at 4 p.m. or 5 p.m.

Isn't that considerate? He gets his meals in his private wing.

If you or I were accused of the same crime, we'd be thrown into the general population of Rikers to fend for ourselves - because of our stature.

U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, in the first remarks on the case from a top Obama administration official, said Strauss-Kahn "is obviously not in a position to run" the IMF.

He is also not in a position to run for president. Shame. At least he doesn't have to run from Bubba after lights out! I'll refrain from adding "and get a dose of his own medicine" because he is presumed innocent until* proven guilty.

His allies have claimed there may be a conspiracy afoot to bring him down with falsified charges; he even suggested such might happen in an interview some time back. How about it smart idiots? Do some conspiracies actually exist? This is not North Korea or Iran we're talking about, it's a French citizen who up until his unfortunate arrest headed a bastion of modern westernism headquartered in the US.

Before you answer, remember that you have an opportunity to uphold the status quo by making the right choice.


*As an afterthought, I pondered the word 'until' in that sentence. I wrote it that way because that's the way I've always heard it said. Isn't that a bit presumptuous? Doesn't that come off as "you're going down, but we'll pretend you're innocent until the rubber stamp is inked." Doesn't it?

I prefer innocent unless proven guilty. That's the way it should be.

OneWhiteEye wrote:I prefer innocent unless proven guilty. That's the way it should be.

A list of such (oxymoron/dichotomy/biased outcome) would be interesting. Not sure what to call it, but you know what I mean...

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say or do can and will be held against you in the court of law. You have the right to speak to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you. Do you understand these rights as they have been read to you?

Doh !

Arus808 on JREF wrote:Silverstein is still, currently in the hole. DEEPLY in the hole. He's on the order of over $3 billion in the hole.

I still bet he dines at better restaurants than I, and does not drive himself, either; neither does he take a taxi. But, relatively speaking, I'm a billionaire compared to him.

Explain that, smart idiots.

OneWhiteEye wrote:relatively speaking, I'm a billionaire compared to him.

Now there is a bit of positivity if ever I heard one !

I'm a billionaire ! (relatively)

Who would have thought relativ-ity would have such practical real-world applications eh

Dr Robert Hare: The first efforts to standardize the definition of psychopathy within modern psychology::

http://www.hare.org/welcome/


These are enlightening studies on features of psychopathic behavior.

1) Lack of sincerity
2) Lack of empathy.
3) Lack of reaction to normally disturbing impressions.
4) Exaggerated sense of self importance.
5) Incapacity to feel guilt or shame

To Dr Hare, a key ingredient of the psychopath seems to be expressed in the title his website and one of his books: "Without Conscience"


What is a Psychopath?

"Psychopaths are social predators who charm, manipulate and ruthlessly plow their way through life, leaving a broad trail of broken hearts, shattered expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret. Their bewildered victims desperately ask, 'Who are these people?'"

We often think of psychopaths as the disturbed criminals who capture headlines and crowd the nation's prisons. But not all psychopaths are killers. They are more likely to be men and women you know who move through life with supreme self-confidence -- but without a conscience.

"What makes them the way they are? How can we protect ourselves?"
-- Robert D Hare, "Without Conscience"

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One of the more revealing studies concerns monitoring the reactions of various people to images, some neutral and some quite disturbing. A neutral image may be of a chair or some uncharged inanimate object.

People exhibiting psychopathic tendencies are found to have a similar emotional reaction to both neutral and disturbing images.

They would have a similar neutral lack of emotion while looking at a door, for example, as they would looking at graphic violence.

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Another study in which subjects are told they will receive an electric shock within a minute. It is normal for people to show an uncomfortable reaction to the prospect of receiving an electric shock within the next minute, but many of those exhibiting psychopathic tendencies are seen to have a noticably muted reaction to the prospect of immediate pain.

Natural patterns as mathematical, scientific and psychological symbols




As I am sure most everyone knows, movements of large bodies within our solar system are based largely on repetitive circular motion. Lunar motions involve a circle within a circle:





The periodic, circular nature of celestial movement has been observed for thousands of years. Archeological finds in South America recently unearthed what appear to be astronomical observation posts used for precise mapping of celestial movement used 4,000 years ago.

Early agricultural societies required a knowledge of when to plant seed and this required the observation of nature's natural clock within star movement. Weather patterns vary from year to year but star movement always remains the same. Crops are planted according to celestial positions.



Periodical circular motion with all bodies rotating around the earth, Europe circa 1600AD:



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Circle as expression of repetitive movement.


Basics of circular repetition:



ANGLE: degree and radian

1) Degree: Angle defined as a rotation over 360 degrees (365 days in one year)

Therefore the concept of degree as "1 day" in a whole year cycle. 4 quadrants of 90 degree rotations (4 seasons in a year, 90 days in one season)

2) Radian: defined as distance along the circumference of a circle of radius 1. The number "pi" being half the distance around the circle, a fundamental ratio between radius and circumference of a circle.

Angles are repetitive systems of numbers exactly as days, months or seasons in a year.


PROJECTION: Cos and sin are only fundamental projections onto the x and y axis


All the more complex trigonometric functions are just ratio expressions of these two simple projections. All trig functions have geometric relations with the basic circle:



They have a more complicated relation to the circle and represent more complex repetitive shapes

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Mathematical expressions of repetitive systems:

The symmetry of a circle and the repetitive nature of motion around it.

Mathematical descriptions of repetitive systems are based on allowing an angle to change linearly while watching only a projection of the motion. As if looking at projections of a circle from the side:



Notice in the image that a basic vibrating body can be expressed as movement along a 2-D circle (x, y dimensions) in which one of the dimensions is "real" and the other is "imaginary".

The conversion of 2-D movement along a circle into the motion of a 1-D sinusiodally vibrating body by calling one of the dimensions "imaginary" is the most basic way in which repetitive motion is expressed throughout physics.. Repetitive motion of all more complex patterns can be expressed as combinations of these basic types of sinusiodal movement.

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For those not familiar with the mathematics behind repeating systems, my point is simple in that it is all based on the symmetry of a circle or a wheel as seen from a projection..

Repetition has been connected with the properties of a circle for thousands of years. Sinusoidal motion is just a projection of circular, spinning motion as the "real" axis projection in the above gif shows.

And you may be wondering what circular, repetitive cycles have to do with a "smart idiot"?



Many reasons. Often people believe they are going somewhere simply because their legs are moving.

As I'm sure all readers are aware, we are all on the planet earth.

We all know the earth spins and the moon rotates about it. We all know the earth orbits around the sun. We know the motions of our own planet are inherently repetitive.

From a mere physical motion standpoint, where are we all going? As earthlings, nowhere but in circles.

As human beings on this planet, are we in some sort of hurry to get somewhere?

I don't believe so. We all seem to be in a inherently repetitive but stable orbit, and in so far as inhabitants of a planet should be concerned, a circular, stable orbit is a pretty damn good thing to have!

But, of course, our own planet is not moving to any destination. We are not impatiently waiting to arrive somewhere. Simple repetitive circular motion towards no known destination is how we all move together through the Galaxy whether a person admits it or no. It is true even if one is not aware of it.

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Considering that we, collectively, are literally going nowhere through space and there are no immediate plans to colonize another planet so we are all stuck on this one, what does it really mean for people to "evolve"?

Are human beings "evolving"? "Progressing"?

In inherently repetitive systems, what does it mean to move "forward"? Are i-pads a sign of human evolution?

When you're finally up at the moon looking back on earth, all those differences and nationalistic traits are pretty well going to blend, and you're going to get a concept that maybe this really is one world and why the hell can't we learn to live together like decent people.

— Frank Borman, Apollo 8, Newsweek, 23 December 1968.


I think the one overwhelming emotion that we had was when we saw the earth rising in the distance over the lunar landscape . . . . It makes us realize that we all do exist on one small globe. For from 230,000 miles away it really is a small planet.

— Frank Borman, Apollo 8, press reports, 10 January 1969.

The view of the Earth from the Moon fascinated me—a small disk, 240,000 miles away. It was hard to think that that little thing held so many problems, so many frustrations. Raging nationalistic interests, famines, wars, pestilence don't show from that distance.

— Frank Borman, Apollo 8, 'A Science Fiction World—Awesome Forlorn Beauty,' Life magazine, 17 January 1969.

[The Moon] was a sobering sight, but it didn't have the impact on me, at least, as the view of the Earth did.

— Frank Borman, Apollo 8, Interview for the PBS TV show Nova, 1999.

We learned a lot about the Moon, but what we really learned was about the Earth. The fact that just from the distance of the Moon you can put your thumb up and you can hide the Earth behind your thumb. Everything that you've ever known, your loved ones, your business, the problems of the Earth itself—all behind your thumb. And how insignificant we really all are, but then how fortunate we are to have this body and to be able to enjoy loving here amongst the beauty of the Earth itself.

— Jim Lovell, Apollo 8 & 13 astronaut, interview for the 2007 movie In the Shadow of the Moon.

It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.

— Neil Armstrong

Oddly enough the overriding sensation I got looking at the earth was, my god that little thing is so fragile out there.

— Mike Collins, Apollo 11 astronaut, interview for the 2007 movie In the Shadow of the Moon.

This planet is not terra firma. It is a delicate flower and it must be cared for. It's lonely. It's small. It's isolated, and there is no resupply. And we are mistreating it. Clearly, the highest loyalty we should have is not to our own country or our own religion or our hometown or even to ourselves. It should be to, number two, the family of man, and number one, the planet at large. This is our home, and this is all we've got.

— Scott Carpenter, Mecury 7 astronaut, speech at Millersville University, Pennslyvania. 15 October 1992.

If somebody'd said before the flight, "Are you going to get carried away looking at the earth from the moon?" I would have say, "No, no way." But yet when I first looked back at the earth, standing on the moon, I cried.

— Alan Shepard


I really believe that if the political leaders of the world could see their planet from a distance of 100,000 miles their outlook could be fundamentally changed. That all-important border would be invisible, that noisy argument silenced. The tiny globe would continue to turn, serenely ignoring its subdivisions, presenting a unified façade that would cry out for unified understanding, for homogeneous treatment. The earth must become as it appears: blue and white, not capitalist or Communist; blue and white, not rich or poor; blue and white, not envious or envied.

— Michael Collins, Gemini 10 & Apollo 11 astronaut, Carrying the Fire: An Astronauts Journeys, 1974.

You develop an instant global consciousness, a people orientation, an intense dissatisfaction with the state of the world, and a compulsion to do something about it. From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that, you son of a bitch."

— Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut, People magazine, 8 April 1974.

It’s the abject smallness of the earth that gets you.

— Stuart Roosa, Apollo 14 astronaut, quoted in Rocket Men, 2009.

My view of our planet was a glimpse of divinity.

— Edgar Mitchel, Apollo 14 astronaut, The Way of the Explorer, 1996.

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I have no special fondness of astronauts over anyone else. One would expect a strong connection to the military, probably quite a "patriotic' point of view (not many "space rebels" are allowed up there), and a pretty nationalistic outlook within the space program.

What I find most interesting about the quotes is that these are very human perceptions by people trained and educated in technical and nationalistic settings. It is as if the perception directly contradicts what they have been taught to believe.

The perception creates contradiction between the person and the core of what they may have thought they previously believed.

The shape of the largest objects on our solar system show the same circular or spherical tendency




I don't see a square object among the bunch, do you?


But seriously, our sun is seen as a spherically symmetrical object (with some rotational bias) as are all the planets. We also know that a suspended drop of water will naturally take on a spherical form.

Geometric shape is a property of a body at a moment in time. Motion is how that body is seen to change shape and position in time. Our whole solar system is "constructed" of geometrically spherical objects moving in repetitive circular patterns over and over and over.

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Recti-linear descriptions of curvilinear processes: Blockheads trying to fit the universe in a shoebox.



Cartesian coordinates hardly need an introduction nor our recti-linear friend, the rectangle:



This is the simplest coordinate system imaginable. I am sure all of us leared how to map space using this method before any other. Being the simplest method, there are extreme advantages to introducing children to numerical mappings of space using it.

But like babies are fed mothers milk only to a certain age, so the most basic recti-linear cartesian coordinate system should be seen as only one of an infinite number of ways to map any space in 1-D, 2-D, 3-D or 4-D space-time.

If people do not learn how to use coordinate mappings of space as flexible tools yet insist on pretending they know everything about physics, they run the risk of becoming blockheads.

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WHat are curvi-linear coordinates?

I know the link looks complicated but the concept iteslf is quite simple.

All it means its that math is our friend. Quite literally, a talented problem solver chooses his coordinates very carefully depending on the natural geometry of the system being described.

Methods of mapping the motion of complex physical systems using generalized coordinates go back to the 18th century with the introduction of Largangian mechanics in 1788.
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Even though generalized coordinates were seen as superior tools for solving both simple and complex mechanical systems before 1800, the blockhead seems unfamiliar with mathematics after 1800 and continues impose blockhead recti-linear restrictions on their own minds before even thinking of a good solution.

I sincerely believe that if some of the earlier 17th centuy physicists were alive today, they would issue a word of caution on their own earlier methods:

Advice to all 21st century blockheads from Isaac Newton and Rene Descartes, a joint statement:

"Dear Sirs, concerning the use off vector calculus and rectilinear coordinates to physics, thank you for over 300 years of support for our problem solving methods, but curvilinear and generalized coordinates were introduced around 1800 and are better than anything we could have devised back then.

Our coordinate systems proved to be only special limited examples of much larger ways to map space and describe motion mathematically.

Move on. Seriously."

...................-Isaac and Rene

I am also quite confident that if Isaac Newton were alive today, he wouldn't be a blockhead.