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The Ground Zero Grid - A01 - Z21

Topics of a general nature, not specific to a timeline.

The Ground Zero Grid - A01 - Z21

Postby Matt » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:24 am

How to find something specific but difficult to describe in those 17 or so acres? This was the system:

Image
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu347/911conspiracytv/OEM_Ground_Zero_debris_locater_map_A01-Z21.jpg

This comes from the NYC OEM MAPS FOIL Nov 17 2010 release available at http://www.911datasets.org, specifically
NYC_OEM_MAPS_FOIL_Nov_17_2010\EMDC_FOIL_Disk_2_of_2_WTC_JPEGs_and_PDFs\WTC 2001 - PDFs\1430_pa_groundzero.pdf -- I cropped the image.

It should be useful.

The orthophotographs were widely employed as a base map, on which data
collected for ground zero was overlaid. For firefighters, thermal and optical
data was a useful combination. The two-dimensional 75 ft square, numbered,
transparent grid established by the FDNY for logistical purposes, was also
superimposed on the images. This provided a common reference system for
tracking objects found amongst the debris. It also enabled recovery workers to
discuss activities and locations on the site. This was particularly important,
since the GPS devices were not working due to interference. One can imagine a
conversation between tired firefighters, trying to discuss the location associated
with a clean up task. Thousands of conversations just like these were significantly
shortened through using this data.

- http://mceer.buffalo.edu/publications/wtc/02-SP05-screen.pdf
Matt
 
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Re: The Ground Zero Grid - A01 - Z21

Postby Matt » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:40 pm

A transparent version of the grid in psd format would be cool. I'm no photoshop master. Anybody up to the task?

Compare aerial images for these days:

9/13, 9/15, 9/17, 9/19, 9/22, 9/26, 9/30, 10/3

(source: 911datasets.org Nov. 17, 2010 NYC OEM MAPS FOIL, credit EarthData. Notice the camera in (about) the same position each day, oriented. Too bad they used black and white. NOAA 9/23 vertical aerial in color, you probably have seen.
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Re: The Ground Zero Grid - A01 - Z21

Postby kawika » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:25 am

I am responsible for obtaining the OEM Maps archived at 911datasets.com

It took me several months of negotiations with OEM to obtain the 297 files, many of which are copies. They simply saved files as either jpg or PDF. Originally there were ~10,000 maps produced by OEM's EMDC (Emergency Mapping and Data Center) on Pier 92. The rest of the files were given to another agency, with whom I am in negotiations. A few weeks ago they reluctantly offered up five maps, one of which is linked here for your viewing:

http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/488/ ... 10601a.pdf

The most glaring indicator is that there were only five airplane parts noted as of NOV 6, 2001.

Once again, the five maps are really only two, with minor changes.

The other one is a victims map dated 05/02/2002. Please let me know if you want to see this one.

I have asked to see the maps' associated data, such as GPS locations of remains and parts that utilized the grid you posted above.

I am hoping to obtain more maps soon. The agency is presently putting together the response to my first request. The raw database will be sent to 911datasets.com so others can download.
LIFE!
LIBERTY!!
PROPERTY!!!
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Re: The Ground Zero Grid - A01 - Z21

Postby Matt » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:46 pm

"Please let me know if you want to see this one." - kawika

YES PLEASE.

---

Thank you, especially for following up in an attempt to squeeze all possible cartographic data out of the OEM. You may try contacting Dr. Sean Ahearn, a primary expert, for more details -- my question would be on the exact method used to obtain the volume and weight of debris, which was reported often in updates provided by the City of New York and quoted by the New York Times, among others. I know "GIS analysis" is the answer, but I want specifics, how voids were detected and density calculated...names of programs.

Records must have been kept on areas as they were explored underground. The only images representing those records that I have seen are at 1. http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/index_WALL.html:
Image

2. http://www.pbs.org/americarebuilds/engineering/engineering_rescue_02.html

Image

3.http://old.911digitalarchive.org/crr/documents/1416.pdf:

Image

Anything more specific would be superb.
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Re: The Ground Zero Grid - A01 - Z21

Postby kawika » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:00 pm

I have tried several times to contact Sean Ahern. I've asked the agencies to contact him regarding the format for the EMDC. All efforts produced silence.

The map showing victims by type from 05/30/01 is here:

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3635 ... 53002b.pdf

Note victims shown in WTC7, where they told us none were located.
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PROPERTY!!!
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Re: The Ground Zero Grid - A01 - Z21

Postby Matt » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:31 am

Fascinating map: about 4,000 body parts were tracked, of the nearly 20,000 total (source)... yet 4,257 human remains were found on Staten Island, according to the "Collateral Damages" piece on Fresh Kills. So about 25% of those found at Ground Zero were mapped, maybe using the grid system.
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Re: The Ground Zero Grid - A01 - Z21

Postby kawika » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:42 pm

My search (in vain) for the facts surrounding the failure of GPS devices at Ground Zero. I'll try to keep this brief.

On Page 12, the MCEER report said:

"This was particularly important, since the GPS devices were not working due to interference."

I contacted everyone who might be able to explain this statement: The report's authors, U of Buffalo, NIST, Coast Guard, FCC. Not one could elaborate; or they said there were no records.

On September 10, 2001 the DOT (Volpe Center) made a press release of an August 29, 2001 report warning about a GPS interference event that would disrupt the transportation infrastructures.

Link: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/vulnerab ... s_2001.pdf

I contacted the report authors through FOIA and phone. They were not aware of the MCEER report. I could never talk directly to them. Their representatives (one was the chief legal counsel at DOT RITA in DC) told me there were no records. When I pressed the issue, the author at Volpe told me (through his representative) the interference was "likely from dust or buildings". I countered that there were fewer buildings in the way than the day before. SILENCE.

I contacted experts who should know about such an event. The only one who responded told me "the answer was likely classified".

Interestingly, there is evidence that GPS on 9/11 was as strong as it had ever been . See this analysis:

Link: http://911blogger.com/news/2009-09-24/l ... 11-attacks

There was a report that lead hijacker/patsy ATTA may have been in NYC on September 10, 2001 possibly taking final GPS coordinates on a newly purchased device.

Link: http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/05/22/h ... per.trail/

Returning now to the 75 foot square grid map utilized for tracking objects and activities at GZ, I have a major problem: If the GPS devices were not working due to interference, how did workers know which 75 foot square they were in? Did they have teams running about with tape measures to determine exactly where they were?

No, GPS was necessary for this grid to work properly. These grid numbers were yet another set of coordinates; a way of associating objects upon a street map. While GPS coordinates were certainly more accurate, this grid could be used for general locating purposes. I can imagine a grid where hundreds of objects were found and the problem of fitting the GPS coordinates into that small area, while many colored dots would fit.

It should be noted that a special system was set up to track debris trucks transporting their precious cargo.

Link: http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/wtc/g ... y_gps.html

Here they indicate that most GPS devices rely on cellular technology to communicate with satellites. Perhaps cellphone service was disrupted and this is the cause of the interference. If that is true, I cannot understand why the agencies did not offer it as an explanation.

Any thoughts?
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Re: The Ground Zero Grid - A01 - Z21

Postby Matt » Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:17 am

WTC: Rise and Fall of an American Icon at 1:07:06 begin discussion on the grid... "not much use" says Dr. Ahearn.

At 1:08:10 talk about GPS begins... for a minute. (download full program avi)
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Re: The Ground Zero Grid - A01 - Z21

Postby kawika » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:34 pm

Thank you for these links.

The grid is next to useless without the GPS. Dr. Ahern refused to answer my questions about the GPS interference event on 9/11. The interference obviously was not a problem when they set up the GPS bag and tag system.
LIFE!
LIBERTY!!
PROPERTY!!!
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Re: The Ground Zero Grid - A01 - Z21

Postby Matt » Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:46 pm

I noticed Kawika's victim map pdf image was removed from the hosting service. Thanks to my habit of downloading everything, I was able to reupload here:
http://www.911conspiracy.tv/pdf/victimmap053002b.pdf
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Re: The Ground Zero Grid - A01 - Z21

Postby Matt » Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:51 pm

I failed to download the parts map posted here:

the-ground-zero-grid-a01-z21-t454.html#p14938

...which is also unavailable at imageshack
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Re: The Ground Zero Grid - A01 - Z21

Postby Matt » Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:53 pm

Thanks for the message, Kawika. Here's the link, everybody:

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/488/partsmap110601a.pdf
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