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Matt's Input on Pulverization

Analysis, observations and theory related to progression.

Re: Smart Idiots

Postby SanderO » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:26 pm

The huge cranes in the second photo are on what was West Street... not the actual site.
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Re: Smart Idiots

Postby Matt » Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:18 am

Sept. 25, a short shot at 10:45 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6lvGNRdWy8#t=10m45s

"America Rebuilds: A Year at Ground Zero"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hRPpva1ujE

Some undated video from Sept/Oct.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rtUR2xL_Fo

A crane lifts a cage and camera into the WTC 1 core:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaUs0HGXRwk

These are some rare videos spanning from Sept. through Oct. that I haven't completely watched yet...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdWeQ1aca0I

MT I'm not sure what quotes I can supply to help. Not much specific to the footprints.

Some images from 9/13 to 9/25, but few of the WTC 1 core:

http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/uu347/911conspiracytv/Ground%20Zero%20by%20David%20Hammond/

A collection of WTC 1 core wreckage images taken on 9/11:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1zHspXvMmM
1080p full screen required, originals and additional images linked in description
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Re: Smart Idiots

Postby Matt » Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:21 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcyugOZaXzk
Working at Ground Zero 5. October some time overlooking the WTC 1 operation for a bit.
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Re: Smart Idiots

Postby SanderO » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:22 pm

Thanks Mat... very informative...
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Re: Smart Idiots

Postby Major_Tom » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:59 pm

A couple of notes:

1) From the images it seems that the OOS regions around the core have a different debris layout than within the core. There are passageways within the core area but the OOS regions seem to consist of very compact and broken up rubble.

2) I'm sure we can agree that floor slabs consist of metal and concrete. In extreme collisions we can expect the concrete to act one way and the metal to act very differently. The rubble in the OOS regions appear to be a bunch of twisted metal and something like gravel. The excavators move over the OOS regions.


I'll make a prediction: As rubble is cleared away in the OOS regions, no core or perimeter columns will be found near the base of the OOS debris. The core and perimeter columns are only lying near the surface of the debris.

If this is true it means that the OOS flooring was the first mass flow to smash into the earth. Both core and perimeter columns fell above the leading OOS mass flow. I'm going to guess that at the base of the OOS regions, the debris consisted of twisted metal and something like gravel and that it was very compact.



Another prediction: The debris in the OOS region is the most dense and compact debris anywhere in the complex. Debris at the base of the OOS region will be of a noticably different density and composition than debris anywhere else in the zone of destruction.
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Re: Smart Idiots

Postby Major_Tom » Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:20 am

In the simplest terms the Twin Towers can be thought of as consisting of 3 components:

1) Core columns
2) Perimeter columns
3) Other


where "other" is flooring, contents, humans and anything else that is not the easily recognizable core and perimeter columns.

As mentioned, both the core and the perimeter are largely mappable.

I think it is of interest to note that both myself and Matt seem to see the collapse progression as "other" being stripped downward leaving both core and perimeter unsupported. We both seem to see this "other " as being stipped downward before all else and the core and perimeter following later.

We may temporarily differ on how that stripping occurred, but the stripping of "other" did seem to lead the destruction.
.................................

My prediction is that a large bulk of "other" will be found at the base of the OOS regions in each tower. The composition and compactness of "other" at the base of the OOS regions is information which should prove useful in determining the collapse mode.


It is information the NIST should have recorded with great care.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


If WTC1 is nothing more than core columns, perimeter columns and "other"...

Click for full size image

then this image shows how the outermost elements of "other" flow outside the footprint and around large sections of the perimeter walls.

From experience I can see that it is impossible to understand the shape the outermost elements of "other" take within the image without understanding how the perimeter moves. The shape and flow of the outermost particulates are determined by perimeter movement. It is the perimeter movement that gives form to the flow witnessed.
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Re: Matt's Input on Pulverization

Postby Major_Tom » Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:14 am

Moderator Note: I split these posts out of the Smart Idiot thread.

Matt raises some good points and provides some good info....so it deserves its own thread.
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Re: Matt's Input on Pulverization

Postby Matt » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:33 pm

Thanks for the thread.

More input I would add includes some thoughts on the glass in the dust, etc. Long post discourages readers, I know. Oh, well. Here's a link with more pictures and most of the same info: http://911conspiracy.wordpress.com/2010/01/24/30/

This forum got me interested, as a matter of fact.

- by metamars on Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:21 pm
"I went to the NYC Police Museum today to verify that the article and accompanying text were genuine. They are, indeed. Furthermore, there were a few shards of glass, with the following text, which I copied down:
‘Glass was a rare find at Ground Zero, where these shards were recovered. The collapse and fires pulverized and melted most of the glass from the Twin Towers 43,600 windows.’"

http://the911forum.freeforums.org/wtc-6-molten-concrete-anomaly-t113.html

Click for full size image

“You didn't find a shard of glass – anything that looked like it would be used by a person, you just didn't see it. It was just concrete, steel, that was it – and dust.” (FDNY Engine 285 firefighter in “Collateral Damages,” E. Sauret 2003) “I never saw a file cabinet, never saw a desk, a chair, never saw a telephone, never saw any type of office furniture. There is no glass. It just disappeared and has become part of this fluffy white or gray dust.” (Assistant Chief of Department, FDNY, Harry Meyers in Dennis Smith, Report from Ground Zero, Ibid., p. 163

Glass was found mostly by mechanical means, when the Fresh Kills shaker screens separated the debris into different size classes mechanically. “Upon their collapse, the twin towers were literally pulverized. Workers at the Staten Island Landfill reported not finding glass pieces larger than three inches.” (U.S. Army Corps of Engineers website [cached])
To find the glass, one had to look in the dust.

“Small shards of glass containing mostly silica and magnesium were also found.[...]
This cloud comprised a complex mix of pollutants, among them the products of combustion of 91,000 L jet fuel, pulverized building materials, cement dust, asbestos, microscopic shards of glass, silica, heavy metals, and numerous organic compounds....”
- Maoxin Wu, et. al., “Case Report: Lung Disease in World Trade Center Responders 
Exposed to Dust and Smoke: Carbon Nanotubes Found in the Lungs 
of World Trade Center Patients and Dust Samples,” EHP, Dec. 2009.

The WTC dust was composed of 40 percent glass fiber, according to one of the most comprehensive studies done. (Paul J. Lioy, et. al., “Characterization of the Dust/Smoke Aerosol that Settled East of the World Trade Center (WTC) in Lower Manhattan after the Collapse of the WTC 11 September 2001,” Environmental Health Perspectives, Vol. 110, Number 7, July 2002.) It is important to know that windows weren't the only form of glass in the place. Not only were there light fixtures, mirrors, TVs and computer monitors, but also there was fiberglass insulation. This widely used insulation was also called slag wool or mineral wool. “These three [dust] samples were composed primarily of construction materials, soot, paint (leaded and unleaded), and glass fibers (mineral wool and fiberglass).” (Lioy, et. al.)

“The Cortlandt Street sample was mainly composed of construction debris [including vermiculite, plaster, synthetic foam, glass fragments, paint particles, glass fibers, lead (Figure 3), calcite grains, and paper fragments], quartz grains, low-temperature combustion material (including charred woody fragments), and glass shards. Chrysotile asbestos fibers were estimated to comprise < 1% of the sample by volume....”
- Lioy, et. al., Ibid.

The U.S. Geological Survey said the “dust deposits formed from the WTC collapse are heterogeneous and are composed largely of particles of glass fibers, gypsum wallboard, concrete, paper, window glass, and other miscellaneous materials commonly used in building construction....” (USGS, “Environmental Studies of the World Trade Center Area, New York City, after September 11, 2001” [emphasis added].)

“The dust also contained a large amount of an unusual material: glass fibers. Both towers were 110 stories high and had 880 stories of windows in total since there were 110 stories with four walls times two sides of windows. These windows had been crushed by the collapse of the towers. These were different than other materials since the glass windows disintegrated into fibrous dust as well as glass chards [sic].”
- Paul J. Lioy, Dust: The Inside Story of Its Role in the September 11th Aftermath, Rowman & Littlefield, New York, 2010, p. 96.

“[O]ver 50 percent of the mass of the WTC dust was made up of the cement and carboneous materials. (Carbon is the fourth most abundant element found in inorganic and organic forms.) As part of the carboneous materials, there were significant quantities of cellulose (paper). Most of the rest of the mass was made up of the glass fiber materials. Some of the glass fibers were formed from the disintegration of glass windows. Other fibers released during the collapse would have been part of interior wall board and ceiling tiles. Some of the fibers were characterized as slag wool and would become known as a specific and identifiable component of the WTC dust.”
- Paul J. Lioy, Ibid., pp. 96-97.

“The fibrous material was composed of disintegrated material that was present in building interiors or on the exterior. As time went on, we would call a large portion of it slag wool, based on work by the United States Geological Survey. However, there were other types of fibers that became of interest, including glass. The composition of the nonfibrous portion of the dust is simple to understand....”
- Paul J. Lioy, Ibid., p. 101.

...as opposed to the abundant, microscopic, fibrous glass which is hard to understand, right?

Then there was the melted glass.

Click for full size image

See also Mark Basile's video at this point here, where he describes once-molten silicate spheres — with magnetic properties.

[Note much of this is copied and pasted from a longer work in progress ... I'll link to it here when I'm done some day.]

For many people working with the debris, it wasn't the construction materials so much as the personal, human things that were missing. “It was like the surface of another planet. … All there was, was - ah - powdered debris and metal. It was a - a very strange scene.” (Dan Nigro, FDNY Chief of Dept. 2001-2002, in “The Conspiracy Files: 9/11,” BBC, 2007.)
NYPD Deputy Inspector and lead investigator on-site (working with FBI), James Luongo, when asked if there were one particular artifact of interest, replied:

“I think the lack of artifacts stands out to me quite a bit. I think the fact that I haven't seen a door, I haven't seen a phone, I haven't seen a computer. I haven't seen a doorknob. I think that stands out.”
- “Relics from the Rubble” (History, 2002)

Note that there were 42,000 doorknobs used in the construction of the WTC towers. (Karl Koch III with Richard Firstman, Men of Steel: The Story of the Family that Built the World Trade Center, Crown Publishers, New York, 2002, p. 322.) Another specific comment on the missing doorknobs:

“[T]he mayor has acknowledged that specialists have told him that because of the great force of the collapse, many if not most of the bodies at Ground Zero have been disintegrated, or atomized. Certainly, every firefighter who has been at the site knows that there is not a piece of glass or marble to be seen anywhere, not a desk, a sink, or a doorknob. It is the virtually indestructible bunker clothes of the firefighters that have preserved their remains.... Of the 542 confirmed deaths at the World Trade Center, about 100 have been firefighters.”
- Dennis Smith, Report from Ground Zero, Ibid., p. 341. From his entry on November 2.

Mentioned by numerous recovery workers were the missing thousands of computers and computer monitors. Remember in 2001 the screens were cathode ray tube (CRT) boxes, with thick glass and heavy metals, weighing about 20 pounds each. The vented plastic cases were formidable during a move. And yet after the buildings fell, “There wasn't a computer screen, a laptop. There was no office- I mean it was, you know, two 110-story buildings – of office equipment. It's just incomprehensible.” (Tom McHale, PAPD/Ironworker in “Metal of Honor: The Ironworkers of 9/11” by Rachel Maguire, 2006) “You don't find a desk. You don't find a chair. You don't find a telephone, a computer.” (Joe Casaliggi, FDNY Engine 7 in “9/11: The Filmmakers' Commemorative Edition”) “All the furnishings and the fixtures inside the building – none of that existed after the collapse. There were no desks. There were no phones, no computers, no copy machines. No chairs, nothing. It had all been pulverized. [...] It was just pulverized into this dust.” (Captain Jay Jonas, FDNY Ladder 6 in “Inside the Twin Towers,” Discovery Channel, 2006)
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