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Crush-down models

Analysis of airplane impacts, fires and collapse theories and examination of related evidence.

Crush-down models

Postby David B. Benson on Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:32 am

I will eventually suggest two models. Both are similar in that a slightly narrower (left to right) upper part (zone C) crushes down on a zone A which has enough room between the walls for zone C to slide down inside. This is only to illustrate crush-down, not the peeling away of perimeter walls.

Model 1 --- The walls, left and right, are built up from Lego bricks. The bottom of the zone A walls will need some buttressing as there is no front nor back wall. The top of zone C is to have a "hat truss" of some form, connecting the two walls. The "floors" are constructed from a pack of playing cards or similar heavy paper stock. All floors, but in zone A and in zone C are to be exactly the same size. This means that the connectors holding the zone A floors in place need to be longer than the connectors holding the zone C floors. These connectors are also made from heavy paper stock and glued in place, both to floor and to wall with as little library paste (flour and water) as secures the connector to the wall. Each floor has four small connectors.

To keep zone C from tilting off to the fron or back, it may be necessary to provide corners on the zone A walls.

Suggested are about 10--20 floors in zone A and 10--12 floors in zone C. Set, gently as possible, zone C on top of the uppermost zone A floor, let go, and observe the crush-down (unless the connectors are too big).

I'll stop at this point for questions, since I may not have explained the construction well enough.
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Re: Crush-down models

Postby Heiwa on Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:28 am

Nice model! Replace the heavy paper stock floors with toilet paper, and zone C - let's call it part C - and its Lego walls will slice through the (toilet paper) floors of part A (not zone A) without problems as part C is narrower than part A and slides inside part A.

Suggestion - make part C equal size of part A so that one Lego wall of part C drops outside part A (and the other one inside).

Now you will see that one part A Lego wall will slice the floors of part C and that after a while, when all part C floors are cut, the Lego wall of part C drops off and falls down. The other part C wall inside part A may very well continue to drop through the floors but part A Lego walls will always remain standing. No rubble - only cut toilet paper.

What do you really want to show with this model? That Lego walls can cut toilet paper due to gravity alone?
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Re: Crush-down models

Postby David B. Benson on Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:32 am

These models are to demonstrate that either there is significant early crush-up or, as the theory requires, very little early crush-up.
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Re: Crush-down models

Postby OneWhiteEye on Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:06 pm

David B. Benson wrote:Model 1 --- The walls, left and right, are built up from Lego bricks. The bottom of the zone A walls will need some buttressing as there is no front nor back wall. The top of zone C is to have a "hat truss" of some form, connecting the two walls. The "floors" are constructed from a pack of playing cards or similar heavy paper stock. All floors, but in zone A and in zone C are to be exactly the same size. This means that the connectors holding the zone A floors in place need to be longer than the connectors holding the zone C floors. These connectors are also made from heavy paper stock and glued in place, both to floor and to wall with as little library paste (flour and water) as secures the connector to the wall. Each floor has four small connectors.


Is this close to what you had in mind? Lower block only:

Image
Larger: http://i40.tinypic.com/30c6tjo.png

And depicted with the Sword of Damocles hangin' over its head:

Image
Larger: http://i44.tinypic.com/25g5ml1.png

Library paste omitted for clarity. Hat truss not shown. Floor connections - I wasn't sure about. I imagined small, rolled paper tubes, represented in the pictures.
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Re: Crush-down models

Postby David B. Benson on Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:45 pm

OneWhiteEye wrote:I imagined small, rolled paper tubes, represented in the pictures.
Yes, that is (almost) what I had in mind! With your paper tubes maybe no library paste is required, which would be better. These floor connections have to be so that little friction develops between them and zone C.

The only change I'd suggest is to put the tops and bottoms of the playing cards, not the sides, adjacent to the walls. That way there is less air resistance.

Anyway, its beautiful. Are you going to do a .gif of the simulated drop? Please?

Edited to add: Oops. Not quite right. All playing cards are to be exactly the same size.
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Re: Crush-down models

Postby OneWhiteEye on Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:10 am

David B. Benson wrote:Yes, that is (almost) what I had in mind!

Excellent.

With your paper tubes maybe no library paste is required, which would be better. These floor connections have to be so that little friction develops between them and zone C.

I'll need to query you more on the nature of the connections. I think it's the issue that makes or breaks the model, more or less. Next post, after I gather my thoughts and go back to the drawing board.

The only change I'd suggest is to put the tops and bottoms of the playing cards, not the sides, adjacent to the walls. That way there is less air resistance.

OK. Eliminating air resistance as a factor is desirable. Is a screen-like material even better, or something with slots or holes? Make the components heavier and the connections stronger, minimizing the proportion of resistance due to air?

Anyway, its beautiful.

Glad you like it! I like this one a little better:

Image
Larger: http://i43.tinypic.com/282m8e8.png

The see thru components make it easier to get the whole picture. A bit too dark but getting there. Aesthetics, too, always important. Can't have any ugly stuff cluttering up the thread!

You see the tubes I've placed only extend a short distance under the floor 'slab'; they could be waxed paper straws (are those made anymore?) or anything similar.

Are you going to do a .gif of the simulated drop? Please?

Sure. Once the model details are settled, I'll try to make some physical representations and break them, i.e., do it for real. Just want to be sure of the plans before I clear a space on the 'real' table. I'm sure I can film the physical trials and get the animations up here, in addition to generated sims. But I have no physics yet behind the images, they're only static models.

Edited to add: Oops. Not quite right. All playing cards are to be exactly the same size.

I know you mentioned it, it was just a quick shortcut to clone the lower block, translate it up and scale the width by 80%. Have to be sure I'm in the ballpark at each step. Back with improvements later.
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Re: Crush-down models

Postby Heiwa on Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:30 am

Why not close the open aft side with Lego bricks so we get three walls? And when you are at it, close the open fourth side with another wall of transparent Lego bricks so we can see inside what happens at crush down.

Are the Lego bricks just snapped together or glued?
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Re: Crush-down models

Postby OneWhiteEye on Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:21 pm

Heiwa wrote:Why not close the open aft side with Lego bricks so we get three walls? And when you are at it, close the open fourth side with another wall of transparent Lego bricks so we can see inside what happens at crush down.

Of course! Just have to take it one step at a time. One wall is sort of trivial (see here) but two is twice the kick without being twice the work. I can see skipping three and going straight to four; eventually, there will be eight - core included - but by then the components will have to be something other than Lego blocks. Perhaps cardboard, or well-rolled sushi.


Are the Lego bricks just snapped together or glued?

I'd opt for snapping only. Re-use in different configurations is a must and these things are expensive. Besides, you could fill the interior air volume with a dead load of solid lead sheets and they won't come unsnapped. It will only join them together forever! How many permanent unions ended up in your toybox as a kid? I broke many a thumbnail trying to pry them apart.
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Re: Crush-down models

Postby OneWhiteEye on Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:25 pm

I figured out why the previous render was so dark. Max trace level set to 5! More than five bounces of a ray cast resulted in black color returned. Setting to 25 allowed traces through all the layers of translucency and produces a much better picture:

Image
Larger: http://i39.tinypic.com/2rwrczd.png

Unfortunately, this single image took 3h 45min to render. It could take a month to render a decent animation (well, a week if I use all four cores in the CPU) so I'll need to rethink that process. In the meantime, opaque cutaways and simple sketches will do to work out the construction details.
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Re: Crush-down models

Postby OneWhiteEye on Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:04 pm

David B. Benson wrote:With your paper tubes maybe no library paste is required, which would be better.

During preparation of the drawing, it became obvious that the key to this whole affair is in the floor connections. Their composition, placement, and means of adherence dictate the dynamics and outcome of the experiment. Indeed, the importance was spelled out in your opening post:

...let go, and observe the crush-down (unless the connectors are too big).

or too strong or well-attached or inadequately placed. The rest of the choices for structural components are all a matter of expediency. To be honest, in any physical model I do build, it will end up being made with the Legos I have in buckets downstairs or another (cheaper) material. I've already pumped enough money into Lego Inc's wallet!

Anyway, the matter of connectors is quite serious. I understand a first approximation ignoring the walls, but this demands extra scrutiny on the connections, as this will be a connection-only failure mode. As such, it has an equivalence relation to pancaking and, at even higher levels of abstraction, houses of cards and domino chains. Unlike pure pancaking, the proposed model adds the significant mass and rigidity of the walls to drive the pancaking, the lower walls are merely to contain the rigid avalanche in a chute, as I understand it. I believe this is at least part of the point Heiwa was trying to get at when inquiring about the use of toilet paper.

Oops. Not quite right. All playing cards are to be exactly the same size.

Ideally, yes, but in a practical sense I don't think it matters too much, if the motivation is uniform slab mass and geometry. I think the upper walls dimensioned inside the lower walls renders this concern moot. Please correct me if I'm missing the point. Again, it seems the properties of the connection dominate the concerns, and varying the connector length as opposed to slab dimension could introduce more undesirable distinction in block behavior.

I chose tubes because they're easy and they can give variable failure energies per unit, though that's certainly not the only way it could be done, probably not the best way. In the renderings I've shown, the tube is depicted laying across a wall brick inside an opening with available vertical clearance. No doubt, in this configuration, some sort of adhesive is required to keep it in place. Given the torques involved for even cardstock (really can't use playing cards unless it's a jumbo novelty deck, the scale needs to be greater), a strong attachment is required to satisy any reasonable DCR in a building analogy. My only experience with library paste is throwing baggies of it against some unlikely targets, and I remember wondering what sort of a problem it would be to get it off after it dried.

Whatever the means of tube attachment or other connection scheme, it should primarily satisfy the constraint of easy re-use, as I suspect many trials will be necessary. Library paste, while soluble, may not be the easiest in this regard. Drying times are a factor, too. All of this suggests the search for a non-degradable, adjustable and purely mechanical means of connector failure is probably worth the effort.

It's not my intention to introduce inordinate complexity with simulations, upfront analysis and multiple trials in what is otherwise a simple table-top demonstration by design. The simplicity is the hook. However, just the fact that the connections can be 'tuned' to fail or survive warrants further examination in order to bring out the most in the model. The really interesting thing for me is to find, in the physical model, the threshold of arrest and then admit that into the theoretical framework and see the clearer resulting picture. In my very simplified crush-up simulacra, I've observed the extreme sensitivity about the collapse/arrest bifurcation. I suspect the only way a physical model will be able to resolve the transition region is through careful choice of participating dynamic constituents.
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Re: Crush-down models

Postby David B. Benson on Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:44 pm

OneWhiteEye --- I think having all the "floors" the same size is important. While I don't think it will happen, the model is to admit at least the possiblity of early crush-up, which means the lower cards need to fit up inside zone C.

I agree that the connectors are important; I opine that just rolled paper tubes, without glue, will work.

I had in mind a model scaled so that ordinary playing cards could serve as floors. In principle scale should not matter. However, it might be better to build the zone C walls out of 1x2s and 1x4s rather than 2x2s and 2x4s so that the lower connectors need not be so long.
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Re: Crush-down models

Postby OneWhiteEye on Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:05 pm

David B. Benson wrote:OneWhiteEye --- I think having all the "floors" the same size is important. While I don't think it will happen, the model is to admit at least the possiblity of early crush-up, which means the lower cards need to fit up inside zone C.

Oh, I get it now! I had a fundamental misunderstanding. I thought the upper block was just going to plow through the lower connections! This is why I want to make virtual models before building physical ones; you need to put forth the ideas and I need to communicate them back in round-trip fashion, unambiguously. Eventually the two mental images will converge, approximately.

The structure I've shown is set up to slice through the connectors like a guillotine, albeit perhaps a dull one against a thick, tough neck. Let me re-examine this in light of my new understanding. Any further thoughts you have will help.

I agree that the connectors are important; I opine that just rolled paper tubes, without glue, will work.

Would they fail by bending, pull-out, or other means? I put them in the illustration but left vague the manner in which they fail. If one imagined adhesive at the contact location at the top of the supporting brick, then it would fail by torque applied from above on the interior side putting the adhesive bond into tension, with a brief resistance in bending and pullout. Without adhesive, the tube must be secured against rotation in a vertical plane from the static load of the slab, presumably by narrowing down the thru-hole in which the tube is placed.

I had in mind a model scaled so that ordinary playing cards could serve as floors. In principle scale should not matter. However, it might be better to build the zone C walls out of 1x2s and 1x4s rather than 2x2s and 2x4s so that the lower connectors need not be so long.

Must process this and get back to you.
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Re: Crush-down models

Postby David B. Benson on Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:44 pm

OneWhiteEye wrote:I thought the upper block was just going to plow through the lower connections!
I believe this is what will occur, except possibly the lowest zone C floor will be lifted off its connectors.
Eventually the two mental images will converge, approximately.
That's the plan.

Would they fail by bending, pull-out, or other means?
Yes.

Without adhesive, the tube must be secured against rotation in a vertical plane from the static load of the slab, presumably by narrowing down the thru-hole in which the tube is placed.
Well, maybe some library paste in the hole, but none to the floor?
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Re: Crush-down models

Postby Heiwa on Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:58 pm

I would now suggest a three walls model with open ends, i.e. two outside walls and one in the centre (to act as core). Upper part C and lower part A have same breadth.
The floors can be of toilet paper fitted between the snapped Lego bricks.

To adjust for mass each floor is loaded with a metal foil of suitable thickness offset from the walls by 1.5 Lego brick (wall) width.

When you drop upper part C on lower part A, you must ensure that part C is offset one Lego brick transversely, so that one upper part C outside wall is inside part A, while the other part C outside wall is outside part A. The Lego walls will then cut the toilet paper floors but not the metal foils.

Hm, it's not good, is it? Part C will be sliced into three parts - like part A - and the metal foil floors will get entangled with one another as they hinge down at the un-cut floor side.
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Re: Crush-down models

Postby David B. Benson on Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:44 pm

OneWhiteEye --- Other possible connectors are

cut paper matches --- maybe cut in half, length wise
cut wooden match sticks --- maybe sliced into quarters, lengthwise
cut toothpicks

Any of those ought to provide a more uniform collection of connectors, methinks.
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