The 9/11 Forum

manxman wrote:i am not a 911 anything snowcrash, banking scandals was my bag, but its all inter-related.

Well aren't you researching 9/11 now?

Jail sentences for insider trading involving 9/11?

Are you referring to Jerome Kerviel? I don't think Jerome was sentenced for 9/11 insider trading...

manxman wrote:Go to history commons and pauls 911 timeline, it does indeed have its roots some 30 years ago, with khan and his nuclear secrets scandal.

using the hotlinks is like opening pandoras box, all the inter-relationships, same people in the background making the billions out of these all to obvious connected events, from enron to cia banking interests, its like opening a 2000 page book, one thing thought becomes clear is that g bush snr is one shady bastard.

I agree he's a bastard.
This opinion does not inform me one bit on the question "what about that passport?"

manxman wrote:oysten no matter what nonsense you spout about the OP this, or the OP that,

How polite.

manxman wrote:my OP is not ambiguous. i am clear in stating that the official explanation is hard to buy, you have said nothing i hadnt already read, before making the posting here, and asking others their opinions.

Please clarify: Were you really only interested in opinions, not in arguments?

manxman wrote:sure passports have survived air crashes before, same as somewhere a tree has shed 100 leaves that fell to the ground, and spelt my name perfectly as the landed, just because its possible does not increase the likelihood.

False.
You made that up, and you know you made that up.
I hope you have seen the evidence that SnowCrash provided about passport from Iranian crash. In fact, it is very common for small, light items to survice airplane crashes.
You are basically arguing from incredulity, and your decisions on what not to believe seem to be heavily biased.

manxman wrote: my belief is that of foreknowledge in the security services,

Yep.Your belief.

manxman wrote:i am not sure why the information was suppressed, bob graham has his conclusions, along with a few other concerned senators,

Does Bob Graham or any of the few other concerned senators claim that the police planted evidence, such as passports? If that is what you claim, I would like to see the evidence (sourced quotes). Otherwise, I call conjecture.

manxman wrote:to me occams razor indicates theres as much likelihood of evidence planting as there is of a jet fuel soaked passport...

I am not aware that the passport was reported to have been "jet fuel soaked" - can you please clarify?

manxman wrote:being found within minutes of the crash, having to have survived, a crash that atomised its owner, all the smoke blowing about where the owner was sat or stood, or where the passport may have been stowed is just bollox, like an illusionists waving hand.

Again, finding such items, even if their owners perish, is actually quite common in plane crashes, your unsupported incredulity notwithstanding.

manxman wrote:typical jref debunker shite, turning a post asking for others opinions, falsely into a positional posting, as if ive taken some kind of stance on the matter, a few questions lads, is the title.

like this nonsense

manxman, I believe you are more interested in the argument than the arguer. Did you find any fault with my arguments? Please fire away!

Are you saying you don't have a position on the matter?? Really?!?

SnowCrash wrote:

manxman wrote:i am not a 911 anything snowcrash, banking scandals was my bag, but its all inter-related.

Well aren't you researching 9/11 now?

Fair comment, ofcourse i am 911 curious, it inter-linked with my interest in banking/ financial scandals, C.I.A. interests etc, i like this place exactly because it is a truther free zone, i admire the sheer effort these lads put into their research, and i keep coming back to read it, even tho i do not understand alot of the more technical stuff, but it is the only 911 forum i read.

thats cos its on a drop down list of my favs, its at the bottom of a list of 10 or so, still i open it most days and read the latest posts, i am obsesive about a subject when i get into it, but like kennedys assassination, its many faceted, and far to complex, far too time consuming for me to obsess about.

i think the links to the several court cases are in my lihop thread where i started my review of the saudi connection.

snowcrash.

The United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui Prosecution Trial Exhibit # P200068 is the photograph of the expired Florida driver's license (T425-473-27-311-0) of John Talignani which was found at the scene in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, where United Airlines Flight 93 crashed. However, the street address that appears on the license, 8611 HUNTSMAN LANE, WAS NOT the Port Richey, Florida, address of John M. Talignani.

This property was owned by Louis C. Crisci and Denise M Crisci from 03/24/1988 to 06/24/94. The application date on John Talignani's driver's license is 09/01/92 and his correct Port Richey, Florida, address was 7202 BRAMBLEWOOD DRIVE which he purchased on 02/08/1985. Incidentally, whoever created this piece of evidence for the Zacarias Moussaoui show trial made another error. The extended zip code for the 8611 Huntsman Lane address is 2019 NOT 6911. The extended zip code for 7202 Bramblewood Drive is 6911.



.........




The United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui Prosecution Trial Exhibit # P200069 is the photograph of the driver's license of CeeCee Lyles which was claimed to be found at the scene in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, where United Airlines Flight 93 supposedly crashed. An examination the CeeCee Ross Lyles driver's license shows an issue date of 12/02/1997.

However, CeeCee L Ross DID NOT have the surname of Lyles in 1997. An examination of her certificate of marriage to Lorne Von Lyles issued in Hillsborough County, Florida, reports the date of marriage to be 05/01/2000.

An examination of St. Lucie County marriage records indicates that CeeCee Ross was married to Ademil Danilo Castrillo on 08/14/1994 with a dissolution of marriage filed on 04/23/1999.

In 1997, the issue date of her driver's license, she was still married to Mr. Castrillo.

Previous to this she was married to Jerome Karl Smith on 02/27/1985 with a dissolution of marriage filed on 03/15/1994.

After contacting the Florida Highway Patrol in Ft. Myers, Florida, it was confirmed that when a person applies for a Florida driver's license with a name change, a new card is issued with a NEW ISSUE DATE and NEW DRIVER'S LICENSE NUMBER that is electronically associated with the previous card's name and number. This is yet another example of how the people involved in fabricating the evidence for the 9/11 hoax did a very sloppy job.

02/27/1985 : MARRIAGE DATE
HUSBAND- JEROME KARL SMITH
03/15/1994 DISSOLUTION OF MARRIAGE
ST. LUCIE COUNTY, FLORIDA

08/14/1994 : MARRIAGE DATE
HUSBAND- ADEMIL DANILO CASTRILLO
04/23/1999 DISSOLUTION OF MARRIAGE
10/24/2001 : MOTION TO DISMISS COURT ORDERED CHILD SUPPORT PAYMENTS W/ ATTACHED DEATH CERTIFICATE
ST. LUCIE COUNTY, FLORIDA
http://www.slcclerkofcourt.com/PublicSearch2/Selec...

Lorne V Lyles /CeeCee L Ross Marriage 05/01/2000
Hillsborough County Courthouse
419 Pierce St.
Tampa, Florida 33602
http://pubrec3.hillsclerk.com/oncore/search.aspx

Florida Highway Patrol
11281 Cleveland Avenue
Ft. Myers, Florida 33907
(239) 278-7100

Can I change the number on my driver license or identification card? No, unless there is a name change. The driver license/identification card number is based on your name, date of birth and gender.
http://www.flhsmv.gov/idtheft.html

Name Change:
You must bring a court order or marriage certificate to a driver license office to prove your name change within 10 DAYS of the change. Documents must be original or certified copies. (Having been a police officer, shouldn't CeeCee have known this?)
http://www.floridadrivers.com/drivers_license/your...



................


http://www.leepa.org/Display/Display...e#SalesDetails

PROOF 1)The specific address of 4024 WINKLER AVE EXT was not even on the Tax Roll until 2000, as the page states, "1st Year Building on Tax Roll 2000"

PROOF 2)Under Sales/Transaction Tab: 2 sales of the VACANT LAND (V/I means Vacant or Improved) were disqualified, both dated 10/22/1998. The date is contrary to the date shown on CeeCee's License



PROOF 3)Under Building/Construction Permit Data: The dates of the FINALED construction permits were 11/07/2000, 12/01/2000, and 02/08/2001.

CONCLUSION: CeeCee Lyles DID NOT reside at 4024 WINKLER AVE EXT in 1997, 1998, 1999, or for the majority of 2000.
..........

oooooooo what a tangled web we weave, when is an exhibit/evidence real, or faked or planted, can you tell snowcrash...


look at it this way what odds would you give me on a 10 dollar bet, i say within 30 years the passport will be proven to be a plant, motive is irrelevant,what odds would you furnish me with acting as my turf accountant.

Oystein

Yes, I know--YOUR opinion is superior to all others.

Snow

Good bunch of questions you have.

The feds, DAs FBI and so forth have a history of planting and fabricating evidence when it suits their purposes. This doesn't make all evidence they produce false, but it does demand a healthy does of suspicion and perhaps put a higher burden on them for authenticity. It's safe to say that creating the case that the planes were hijacked by 19 Arabs suited their purposes which was a casus belli for wars in the ME.

Interesting that wars were started against nations which were not the ones the supposed hijackers came from. A minor detail I suppose.

You are right about that Sander!

Back in November and December of 1998, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette published Bill Moushey's work and it was titled Win At All Costs. A well documented examination of the shenanigans and crimes of prosecutors at the altar of the War On Drugs. The government has proved time and again that it is above the law and lies about it.

In local courts it's call testilying.

manxman wrote:oooooooo what a tangled web we weave, when is an exhibit/evidence real, or faked or planted, can you tell snowcrash...

I can tell you copy & pasted that from Phil Jayhan's forum, a cesspit of disinformation meant to drive a wedge between the 9/11 victims families and the 9/11 truth movement. No other den of shite on the internet sinks so low so professionally and elaborately. I admire your guarded patience before finally dropping the turd in the punchbowl though. I suppose you expect me to waste man hours on that, right? Ha ha ha ha.

look at it this way what odds would you give me on a 10 dollar bet, i say within 30 years the passport will be proven to be a plant, motive is irrelevant,what odds would you furnish me with acting as my turf accountant.

I say you probably shouldn't be taking up gambling unless you want to end without a car, house, and a wedding ring.

Manxman - VicSims - really? Honestly?

manxman wrote:...
look at it this way what odds would you give me on a 10 dollar bet, i say within 30 years the passport will be proven to be a plant, motive is irrelevant,what odds would you furnish me with acting as my turf accountant.

Careful. During the last year I have offered CTers several bets for money, my bid typically ranging in the 200-2000 Euros range (is that 300-3000 US$? Would have to check current exchange rate). Sometimes I would even accept if my opponent offered only 10% of my bid if he loses. The funny thing is, not a single of the conspiracy theorists ever accepted the offer to bet. Which tells me they all knew they'd end up losing money.

Your idea, to check 30 years down the road, has the nice advantage for you that we won't actually check it out 30 years down the road to settle the bet, so you can maintain the illusion that you'd win. However, I'd have no problem to bet 200 on this and would accept if you bet only 20. Odds are certainly much more in my favour than that. Yep, my claim is as cheap as yours, the difference being I am committing real money here and now.

SnowCrash wrote:

manxman wrote:oooooooo what a tangled web we weave, when is an exhibit/evidence real, or faked or planted, can you tell snowcrash...

I can tell you copy & pasted that from Phil Jayhan's forum, a cesspit of disinformation meant to drive a wedge between the 9/11 victims families and the 9/11 truth movement. No other den of shite on the internet sinks so low so professionally and elaborately. I admire your guarded patience before finally dropping the turd in the punchbowl though. I suppose you expect me to waste man hours on that, right? Ha ha ha ha.

look at it this way what odds would you give me on a 10 dollar bet, i say within 30 years the passport will be proven to be a plant, motive is irrelevant,what odds would you furnish me with acting as my turf accountant.

I say you probably shouldn't be taking up gambling unless you want to end without a car, house, and a wedding ring.

not at all, the turd was already in the punchbowl, i read the cases here, and i copied those quotes from another thread here, i saw no objection to them in that thread, i told once already this is the only 911 site i visit, any sites that i do visit are links from here.

Oystein wrote:Manxman - VicSims - really? Honestly?

manxman wrote:...
look at it this way what odds would you give me on a 10 dollar bet, i say within 30 years the passport will be proven to be a plant, motive is irrelevant,what odds would you furnish me with acting as my turf accountant.

Careful. During the last year I have offered CTers several bets for money, my bid typically ranging in the 200-2000 Euros range (is that 300-3000 US$? Would have to check current exchange rate). Sometimes I would even accept if my opponent offered only 10% of my bid if he loses. The funny thing is, not a single of the conspiracy theorists ever accepted the offer to bet. Which tells me they all knew they'd end up losing money.

Your idea, to check 30 years down the road, has the nice advantage for you that we won't actually check it out 30 years down the road to settle the bet, so you can maintain the illusion that you'd win. However, I'd have no problem to bet 200 on this and would accept if you bet only 20. Odds are certainly much more in my favour than that. Yep, my claim is as cheap as yours, the difference being I am committing real money here and now.

try some new bait oysten, a boy labeling me a CTer at 53 years old aint gonna have the desired effect, your not even smart enough to realise that manxman is my nationality, i deal in manx pound notes.

as for offering bets, i dont just talk about it like you, i make book every day for my living, whereas apart from talk i would wager you have never stood a real bet in your life.

an example of a couple of days activity making book below, nomally there would have been twice the activity on my account only several meetings have been lost to frost, and i concentrate only on national hunt, october thru april, and then have 6 months off..


Horse Racing / Newc 1st Feb : 2m NHF 01-Feb-12 16:20 01-Feb-12 16:26 60.60
Horse Racing / Newc 1st Feb : 3m Hcap Chs 01-Feb-12 15:50 01-Feb-12 15:58 60.60
Horse Racing / Newc 1st Feb : 2m4f Nov Hrd 01-Feb-12 15:20 01-Feb-12 15:27 60.60
Horse Racing / Newc 1st Feb : 2m4f Hcap Chs 01-Feb-12 14:50 01-Feb-12 14:57 60.60
Horse Racing / Newc 1st Feb : 3m Hcap Hrd 01-Feb-12 14:20 01-Feb-12 14:27 60.60
Horse Racing / Newc 1st Feb : 2m Hcap Chs 01-Feb-12 13:50 01-Feb-12 13:55 60.60
Horse Racing / Newc 1st Feb : 2m Nov Hrd 01-Feb-12 13:20 01-Feb-12 13:26 60.60
Horse Racing / Taun 31st Jan : 2m1f NHF 31-Jan-12 16:40 31-Jan-12 16:51 60.60
Horse Racing / Folk 31st Jan : 2m1f Hcap Hrd 31-Jan-12 16:20 31-Jan-12 16:25 -336.27
Horse Racing / Taun 31st Jan : 2m Hcap Chs 31-Jan-12 16:10 31-Jan-12 16:15 60.60
Horse Racing / Folk 31st Jan : 2m Hcap Chs 31-Jan-12 15:50 31-Jan-12 15:54 60.60
Horse Racing / Taun 31st Jan : 2m3f Hcap Hrd 31-Jan-12 15:40 31-Jan-12 15:46 60.60
Horse Racing / Folk 31st Jan : 3m1f Hcap Chs 31-Jan-12 15:20 31-Jan-12 15:27 60.60
Horse Racing / Taun 31st Jan : 2m1f Hcap Hrd 31-Jan-12 15:10 31-Jan-12 15:15 60.60
Horse Racing / Folk 31st Jan : 2m1f Nov Hrd 31-Jan-12 14:50 31-Jan-12 14:55 60.60
Horse Racing / Taun 31st Jan : 2m3f Nov Chs 31-Jan-12 14:40 31-Jan-12 14:45 60.60
Horse Racing / Folk 31st Jan : 2m5f Mdn Chs 31-Jan-12 14:20 31-Jan-12 14:26 60.60
Horse Racing / Taun 31st Jan : 2m1f Nov Hrd 31-Jan-12 14:10 31-Jan-12 14:15 60.60
Horse Racing / Folk 31st Jan : 2m6f Nov Hrd 31-Jan-12 13:50 31-Jan-12 13:57 -334.40
Horse Racing / Taun 31st Jan : 3m Hcap Hrd 31-Jan-12 13:40 31-Jan-12 13:49 60.60
Horse Racing / Ayr 30th Jan : 2m NHF 30-Jan-12 16:30 30-Jan-12 16:35 60.60
Horse Racing / Plump 30th Jan : 2m2f NHF 30-Jan-12 16:20 30-Jan-12 16:27 60.60
Horse Racing / Ayr 30th Jan : 2m Hcap Hrd 30-Jan-12 16:00 30-Jan-12 16:06 60.60
Horse Racing / Plump 30th Jan : 2m Hcap Hrd 30-Jan-12 15:50 30-Jan-12 15:54 60.60
Horse Racing / Ayr 30th Jan : 2m Hcap Hrd 30-Jan-12 15:25 30-Jan-12 15:31 -335.68
Horse Racing / Plump 30th Jan : 3m1f Hcap Hrd 30-Jan-12 15:15 30-Jan-12 15:22 60.60
Horse Racing / Ayr 30th Jan : 2m5f Hcap Chs 30-Jan-12 14:55 30-Jan-12 15:04 60.60
Horse Racing / Plump 30th Jan : 3m2f Hcap Chs 30-Jan-12 14:45 30-Jan-12 14:52 60.60
Horse Racing / Ayr 30th Jan : 3m1f Hcap Chs 30-Jan-12 14:20 30-Jan-12 14:29 60.60
Horse Racing / Plump 30th Jan : 2m5f Nov Hrd 30-Jan-12 14:10 30-Jan-12 14:16 60.60
Horse Racing / Ayr 30th Jan : 2m4f Nov Chs 30-Jan-12 13:50 30-Jan-12 13:58 -513.08
Horse Racing / Plump 30th Jan : 2m1f Hcap Chs 30-Jan-12 13:40 30-Jan-12 13:47 -55.95
Horse Racing / Ayr 30th Jan : 2m4f Nov Hrd 30-Jan-12 13:20 30-Jan-12 13:26 60.60
Horse Racing / FfosL 29th Jan : 2m NHF 29-Jan-12 16:30 29-Jan-12 16:34 60.60
Horse Racing / FfosL 29th Jan : 2m5f Hcap Chs 29-Jan-12 16:00 29-Jan-12 16:06 60.60
Horse Racing / Leop 29th Jan : 2m4f Hcap Hrd 29-Jan-12 15:35 29-Jan-12 15:50 -338.10
Horse Racing / FfosL 29th Jan : 2m5f Hcap Chs 29-Jan-12 15:25 29-Jan-12 15:32 60.60
Horse Racing / Leop 29th Jan : 2m4f Nov Hrd 29-Jan-12 15:05 29-Jan-12 15:18 60.60


i have been a number crunching longer than you have been alive oysten, stats have always been the new black to me.



oh and i would just like to add, i have a theory, a conspiracy theory at that, after being involved in horse racing for over 25 years i think its basically corrupt, i cannot prove it, statistcally i can highlight trainers who are at it, so instead of whining about it, i make money from it.

manxman wrote:try some new bait oysten, ...

Bait? if that's a bait, you laid it out when you asked for betting odds. I am just taking you by your word.

manxman wrote:...a boy labeling me a CTer at 53 years old...

Would you like to venture a guess about my age?
You clearly are peddling CTs. Some of the vilest even - VicSims. I asked you if you were serious about that.

manxman wrote:aint gonna have the desired effect, your not even smart enough to realise that manxman is my nationality, i deal in manx pound notes.

I'd rather agree upon a convertible currency that stands a chance of having had continuous real value 30 years down the road :p
Maybe we could agree on betting a certain amount of gold that is now worth 200 Euros or whatever a near and round amount in manx pound notes you may suggest.

manxman wrote:as for offering bets, i dont just talk about it like you, i make book every day for my living, whereas apart from talk i would wager you have never stood a real bet in your life.

The interesting thing here is that I am not just talking but committing to this particular bet, while you talk and talk about your irrelevant fun at the race track.

manxman wrote:an example of a couple of days activity making book below, nomally there would have been twice the activity on my account only several meetings have been lost to frost.
...
i have been a number crunching longer than you have been alive oysten, stats have always been the new black to me.

There are no stats for 9/11 planted evidence. Stats in betting come about by people actually betting and playing it out. Let's create those stats!

i love people like you oysten, so assured in your pronunciations, so self confident in your choice of authority figures you fully invest your faith in, with so little actual life experience.

you know i play poker and casino blackjack to relax during the summer, i wouldnt if i lost money long term tho.

one day a few years ago i thought, why dont i play poker online, so i did infact played 18 100 dollar sit and gos, won about 1200 bucks, but i quickly realised that online poker was not casino poker, to many premium hands run up against other premiums, so despite being profitable, it was uninstalled, why you may ask, if it was profitable did i abandon it, truth is i play to relax and have banter at a table, online is to stressful, even playing it in a hammock shaded by a nice cherry tree supping an ice cold budweiser didnot make the bastardised online game enjoyable, the cards are as randomly dealt, as the days of the week are random.
can i prove it, no i cannot, i just know from being a mid to high stakes player, experience told me it was juiced, and thats all i needed.

i mentioned i thought it was juiced in a poker forum once, had the same kinda numpty as you, talking down to me about seeing more hands etc etc etc, then he finished up by telling me,
/ to learn how to play online poker riggy /

do you see, he labelled me a riggy as part of his put-down, probably some 50 rated numpty.
point being, the boards should be the same as casino dealt boards, i shouldnt have to learn to play onlne poker if they were random, i shouldnt have to learn to avoid software dealt traps.
hypocrisy at ts finest, its what people like you do best.


cant beat experience oysten, so i recommend you live alittle, get 30 years of listening to your favorite type of authority figure behind you, before being so cock sure in future.

to verify my poker claims click here.
http://www.sharkscope.com/#

name / manxman / game /sit n gos/ network /cryptologic/

Username
manxman
Games Played
18
Av. Profit
$63
Av. Stake
$96
Av. ROI
27%
Total Profit
$1,140
Form Ability /100
92



not quite sure how they work the roi, by m reckoning it was 70 percent.


anyway it is not stories that are important its the moral of the story, that is point, do you get it.

and apart from the moral of 2 posts,i wanted to let snowcrash chew on his own arse awhile, for the advice he passed on so utterly blindly, whilst breaking 2 or 3 of his previous advices in doing so.